Argonath RPG Police Department
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nathan_Kolta on May 05, 2012, 01:43:49 am
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I came across this in the constitution I have asked several people for an answer but I can never get a solid answer. My question being are there any laws that conflict with this? I will highlight the parts I am curious about
Ordinance II: Due to the requirement of protection against terrorism, against doers of wrong, of ones own property, and the protection of the states themselves, the government shall not reject the right of citizens to bare arms. However, no weapon shall be in open sight without lawful purpose. This does not apply to appointed law enforcement agencies unless directed otherwise by appropriate law enforcement officials.
Ordinance XV: This Constitution is the supreme law of the United State of Argonath, and any law that is inconsistent with the provisions of the Constitution is, to extent of the inconsistency, is of no force or effect.The Contitution however may not be upheld to invalidate the World Rules of Argonath People (server rules)
My main query is can Members of the public display firearms freely with lawful intent/purpose?
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Citizens are not allowed to display firearms in public. They can have their weapon at home, to protect their property. They can also have it to protect themselves against terrorists or any danger that is presented to them.
However, that does not give any reason to have weapons visible in public. If you are spotted with a weapon being displayed in public, you will be asked to hide it. If you fail to comply to this order, you will be arrested.
That is it really, you should not have weapons displayed in public for no reason, unless you are a member of local law enforcement.
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Citizens are not allowed to display firearms in public. They can have their weapon at home, to protect their property. They can also have it to protect themselves against terrorists or any danger that is presented to them.
However, that does not give any reason to have weapons visible in public. If you are spotted with a weapon being displayed in public, you will be asked to hide it. If you fail to comply to this order, you will be arrested.
That is it really, you should not have weapons displayed in public for no reason, unless you are a member of local law enforcement.
I work with law enforcement agencies frequently as AAF would this be considered a potential reason?
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Unless you're an official law enforcement officer that is in danger/under threat, you should not brandish a weapon in public.
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I usually get to pullover AAF guys, since they're situated in Bone County . They seem to think that they can keep their weapons in public view. I constantly warn them but it takes a while until they agrees to comply.
AAF is NOT an official group, unlike ADF, therefor you do not have any special privileges.
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ADF can not hold weapons in public for no reason either.
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No one other than the official ARPD members are to show their weapons in public.
Even if a army or law group is official or unofficial, they are not to show any weapons in public at any stage without any authorization.
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Warning small rant ahead..
AAF is NOT an official group, unlike ADF, therefor you do not have any special privileges.
ADF are not official and we have never claimed "special privileges" also can I have the names of those you usually pull over.
No one other than the official ARPD members are to show their weapons in public.
Even if a army or law group is official or unofficial, they are not to show any weapons in public at any stage without any authorization.
Not being fussy but can you show me a quote of where this is from please?
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ADF are not official and we have never claimed "special privileges" also can I have the names of those you usually pull over.
Not being fussy but can you show me a quote of where this is from please?
ADF are not official
Incorrect, they are official.
Not being fussy but can you show me a quote of where this is from please?
Read the constitution (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=57761.0) and you will find your answer on your questions that you have presented in this thread.
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The constitution clearly says:
"However, no weapon shall be in open sight without lawful purpose."
I take this as...keep your weapon hidden unless you're being shot at ;)
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For roleplay weapons are cool, But if you want to roleplay a soldier then take 10 M4 or Mp5 bullets with you, And not 300.
Also as soon as an officer tells you to put it away, Do so.
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The constitution states with Lawful purpose. When AAF is in active duty we are doing three things, Training, Public Outreach or Responding to a call from SAPD/FBI Etc. When we display weapons it is purely for lawful purpose. For example Training is a lawful purpose as we are training our units everything they need for when we are called to a situation or in routine patrols etc., Firearm use is a must for some training sessions.
Secondly Danny due to our co work with SAPD and FBI we are targeted by groups thus why we carry firearms on a daily basis however our standard lawout is 200x 7.62 Rounds and 70x .50AE Rounds. This is set as the maximum you will need in a prolonged situation and has been tested. We advise against carrying more than this.
Again Paul please show me evidence of your claims because as far as I know there are no "Official" military groups, never have been never will.
I can see this ending in an arguement or something so I am proposing a compromise for both parties that does not violate the constitution in anyway. If I showed evidence of AAF operations only being for Lawful intent would both parties be able to come to an agreement that we display weapons with SAPD supervision of something like that? I dont know, the terms and conditions would need to be discussed of course
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Again Paul please show me evidence of your claims because as far as I know there are no "Official" military groups, never have been never will.
UA, CIA, ADF, and other groups do not have ANY special privileges to aid cops without being on duty..
All players who are not on cop duty will be regarded as civilians, and they will be punished for deathmatching if they try to kill suspects/civilians.
Furthermore, all those who have lied to me about their so-called privileges will be punished.
I already confirmed with the owners that they have never allowed any groups to have such privileges.
If you want to do cop works, be on cop duty.. Otherwise, you will be punished accordingly..
Some military groups have rights to spawn hydras. However, they must be used only for training and RP situations. They MUST NOT be used to help cops in any ways unless ARPD specifically instructs to do so.
Overall, all groups outside ARPD have the same rights, which do not include the right "to help cops without being on cop duty".
Exception: Army groups can help cops, with situation leaders' permission, to respond to situations where cops need army supports.
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=70952.msg1079844#msg1079844
I know there are no "Official" military groups, never have been never will.
Incorrect again. There are two official military groups currently.
- MGI (http://mgi.argonathrpg.com)
- ADF (http://adf.argonathrpg.com)
End of story.
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... I'm just going to take this to a Manager as I am not getting solid answers. As you wish "End Of Story."
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... I'm just going to take this to a Manager as I am not getting solid answers. As you wish "End Of Story."
You are going to receive the same answers over and over again..
As you wish.
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Only law enforcement can show their weapons, this only includes ARPD and the FBI.
I think that's a pretty straight answer.
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The constitution states with Lawful purpose. When AAF is in active duty we are doing three things, Training, Public Outreach or Responding to a call from SAPD/FBI Etc. When we display weapons it is purely for lawful purpose. For example Training is a lawful purpose as we are training our units everything they need for when we are called to a situation or in routine patrols etc., Firearm use is a must for some training sessions.
Secondly Danny due to our co work with SAPD and FBI we are targeted by groups thus why we carry firearms on a daily basis however our standard lawout is 200x 7.62 Rounds and 70x .50AE Rounds. This is set as the maximum you will need in a prolonged situation and has been tested. We advise against carrying more than this.
Again Paul please show me evidence of your claims because as far as I know there are no "Official" military groups, never have been never will.
I can see this ending in an arguement or something so I am proposing a compromise for both parties that does not violate the constitution in anyway. If I showed evidence of AAF operations only being for Lawful intent would both parties be able to come to an agreement that we display weapons with SAPD supervision of something like that? I dont know, the terms and conditions would need to be discussed of course
Showing weapons in a pullover against two BCSD Deputies certainly isin't the "Lawful purpose"
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The quote from MIB is fairly old, and it has some inconsistencies in it towards other rules, but for the most part the general idea does still apply as was stated.
@Paul: As far as I know, ADF only has web support and are not deemed "official" yet by the Server Owners. MGI, however, was deemed official.
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I remember one time around some months ago the founder stated that the group was official.
Could be wRONg though if it was false from the leader itself which i trusted.
But regarding the topic.. even if ADF was official or not, they will have no rights at all to assist the ARPD without permission.
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ADF even had rights to use the hydra and hunter, but that got abused abit.. But I don't get why you AAF always are here to moan on ARPD? You wanted answers and you got answers from us.
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ADF even had rights to use the hydra and hunter, but that got abused abit.. But I don't get why you AAF always are here to moan on ARPD? You wanted answers and you got answers from us.
Im sorry, what? This is the first time I am aware of. Show me other cases of us moaning please
Paul Im going to ask a manager with hopes of finding some actuall evidence because Im not getting any here
"But regarding the topic.. even if ADF was official or not, they will have no rights at all to assist the ARPD without permission."
Where did I ask this?
"Showing weapons in a pullover against two BCSD Deputies certainly isin't the "Lawful purpose""
Names please, next time let me know when it happens, not keep it to yourself
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I remember one time around some months ago the founder stated that the group was official.
Could be wRONg though if it was false from the leader itself which i trusted.
But regarding the topic.. even if ADF was official or not, they will have no rights at all to assist the ARPD without permission.
Well ADF was recognized and given some rights just as USAA was at the time, but the main reason why they weren't made official, even when completely active and running strong, was because there were 2 competing military groups with limited script support that Argo recognized, and the Server Owners didn't think it'd be fair to make one official and not the other, but having 2 would have been unnecessary overkill and would create heavy competition.
The situation regarding such has been misunderstood many times over the last 2 years due to the limited script and server support, but lack of official status, so don't be surprised if you get conflicting information from different sides. :cop:
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Unless you're an official law enforcement officer that is in danger/under threat, you should not brandish a weapon in public.
Incorrect again. There are two official military groups currently.
- MGI (http://mgi.argonathrpg.com)
- ADF (http://adf.argonathrpg.com)
End of story.
ADF is 'supported' but remains unofficial; similar to the CIA (http://cia.argonathrpg.com/); they are supported, but unofficial.
MGI, is official last I was aware also, MGI isn't really a military group; they are more of mercs.
Overall, in short YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO OVER HAVE GUNS OUT unless authorized by SAPD/FBI ranked members.