Argonath RPG Police Department

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: James_Hunter on August 16, 2008, 14:45:49 pm

Title: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: James_Hunter on August 16, 2008, 14:45:49 pm
ARPD Textbook
Weapon use

16/08/2008: Sergeant J. Hunter suspended for;


Both 'rules' that I broke, as I quote Chief Rafferty, there is no mention to in the rulebook, therefore I would like to have them updated with rules under the ARPD Weapon Use act so that further situations like the rules I apparently broke but without awareness to them can be avoided. Thanks.


Evidence Case

Photograph - Visual Evidence 001; Another officer unaware to the so called rule in effect that I was suspended for.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/JinLo/EvidenceShot1.png)

Audiotape - Audio Evidence 002/003 An Ex-Deputy Chief and Senior ARPD Officer, says what I did was infact legal and no known rules where broken.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/JinLo/EvidenceShot3.png)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/JinLo/EvidenceShot2.png)

Audiotape - Audio Evidence 004/005; An SWAT Operative and veteran officer gives his knowledge on the rule.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/JinLo/VisualEvidence05.png)
Hazy screenshot, direct link: http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/JinLo/?action=view&current=VisualEvidence05.png
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/JinLo/VisualEvidence04.png)

Audiotape - Audio Evidence 006; An veteran officer gives his input on the rules, stating he doesn't know.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/JinLo/VisualEvidence06.png)
Hazy screenshot, direct link: http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/JinLo/?action=view&current=VisualEvidence06.png
Title: Re: Textbook Update - Formal Request
Post by: James_Hunter on August 16, 2008, 15:24:31 pm
Update:-

Title: Re: Textbook Update - Formal Request
Post by: [Rstar]CBFASI on August 16, 2008, 15:27:33 pm
http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=2154.0 (http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=2154.0)

http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=1172.0 (http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=1172.0)
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: James_Hunter on August 16, 2008, 15:40:33 pm
Updated, as to the link quote; that doesn't state if you can shoot from a passenger side of the squad-car, if the suspect is fleeing or not. And it also supports the fact I opened fire on the fleeing suspect in a vehicle was the correct thing to do.
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: [Rstar]CBFASI on August 16, 2008, 15:43:43 pm
This evidence changes NOTHING.

Its in plain english in them 2 links!

Stop trying to avoid it, a chief has made a decision, be thankful its not extended.
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: James_Hunter on August 16, 2008, 15:46:08 pm
I'm entitled to make a case enquirey. Please quote where it gives information on shooting from a passenger window when a suspect is on foot, it doesn't say you can, or you can not, fact being the rule is to unclear around that mark, to the point no-one actually knows when asked.
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: [Rstar]CBFASI on August 16, 2008, 15:54:53 pm
Quote
Firing at suspect that had refused over 16 warnings to surrender, suspect was fleeing towards second car after I had PIT'd her, switching to passenger seat before she actually started running, I opened fire, then exited the vehicle and ran towards the vehicle she was attempting to aquire, note I was in the passenger seat, squad-car wasn't moving.
Quote
- The ARPD officers can not drive by in common car pursuits

- The ARPD officers can drive by when:
  1.the suspect's vehicle is much faster then the police cars. (against vehicle)
 
  2.the suspect is dangerous to the public with his driving. (against vehicle)
 [note: only if the suspect carkilled someone, or blew up other vehicle with ramming or blew up Gas station]
 
  3.the suspect is reached the highest wanted level, attacked officers. (against vehicle)
AGAINST VEHICLE NOT AGAINST FOOT... VERY CLEAR
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: James_Hunter on August 16, 2008, 15:56:56 pm
If it was very clear, would everyone who I questionned be so unsure, or think completely the opposite? I direct attention back to the evidence given.
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: [Rstar]CBFASI on August 16, 2008, 16:01:31 pm
Maybe they should read the forum more.

Maybe MORE suspensions, I can use those pictures as evidence..

This makes the requirement to remove UZI's from police issue even more likely
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: James_Hunter on August 16, 2008, 16:02:30 pm
Maybe just update the textbook and include rules of engagement from squad-car to suspects on foot?
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: Alan_White on August 16, 2008, 16:04:36 pm
I'd just like to add, it may be a bit easier for officers to be sure of the rules and laws that we must follow if there weren't 10 different threads for them.
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: FlameMan on August 16, 2008, 16:04:50 pm
I think that Chief Rafferty wouldnt suspend someone without reason..
I respect you as great policeman and awesome person, so no offence..

I dont know case, and i think im not a good person to write here, so i will leave it to higher ranked.

Quote from: Alan_White on August 16, 2008, 16:04:36 pm
I'd just like to add, it may be a bit easier for officers to be sure of the rules and laws that we must follow if there weren't 10 different threads for them.

When i was making my Academy, i also made ARPD Guide which includes all laws and rules:

Table of Contents

DEFAULT GUIDE

1. Official ARPD Guide
2. Laws And Rules
3. Duty Regulation
4. Uniform Wearing

TRAINING

5. Training – Theory
6. Training – Driving
7. Training - Communication

Attach:
- Guide.doc (http://flameman.av-clan.com/arpd/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15.0;attach=1)  //normal guide - Microsoft Office//
- Guide.odt (http://flameman.av-clan.com/arpd/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15.0;attach=2)  //normal guide - Open Office//
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: [Rstar]CBFASI on August 16, 2008, 16:06:41 pm
The whole textbook will need updating once RS4.0 comes out
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: James_Hunter on August 16, 2008, 16:08:26 pm
So in summary, my suspension remains to enforce the fact that these rules I broke? Even though the rule is clearly mistakable and many have had trouble sorting it out? Seems a bit of a harsh way to bring in a new rule don't you think?

(I bring to attention to the second rule I broke is actually what you're meant to do - pop tires of escaping vehicle whilst on foot!)

P.S. Robert, having the rules in another thread, that links to another site, that links to other PDF documents rather adds to confusion, when if they where all in one place and where often updated, rather then guess-work and ''Hmm.. i don't think you can do that'', more along the lines of ''Parahraph 4 states you cannot do that'', which is what we don't have.
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: FlameMan on August 16, 2008, 16:13:51 pm
Ye i understand.. i think it will be changed :)
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: [Rstar]CBFASI on August 16, 2008, 16:37:37 pm
Quote from: James_Hunter on August 16, 2008, 16:08:26 pm
Seems a bit of a harsh way to bring in a new rule don't you think?

One that is almost 2 months old, not exactly NEW!

AND to make it worse. YOUR OWN WORDS!

Quote
Use of SMG:-
5A. An suspect is fleeing in a car, the passenger in a squad car may drive-by using uzis, not the driver.
6A. An suspect is fleeing in a car, Officer may fire on foot at the wheels using Uzi.

2. Standard Issue SMGs (Uzis) may be used should any of the situations be provided:-
Heavily armed suspect
Suspect is fleeing in a vehicle - see section I. 5A
http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=2166.0 (http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=2166.0)

You already knew so you got no excuses!
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: James_Hunter on August 16, 2008, 16:58:37 pm
Thats copied and pasted from the official rule-book, just boosted up with presentation. Not to mention that doesn't say anything about shooting from passenger side at suspect on foot. So no, that doesn't cover anything different.
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: [Rstar]CBFASI on August 16, 2008, 17:06:00 pm
Use your brains for once!

Above says what you can do, it if DOES NOT SAY, you CANNOT DO IT.

IT EVEN STATES PASSENGER IN SQUAD CAR!
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: [R*]Brains on August 16, 2008, 18:11:01 pm
I didnt say i dont know, i said i know same as u because i read Irregular usage of uzi same as u, i suppose, and i know in which situations u can/cant use Uzis..And i saw this case only when u asked me to check the forum, cuz before that i didnt know what ur asking me exactly and whats happening...
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: James_Hunter on August 16, 2008, 19:29:04 pm
Quote from: [R*]Brains on August 16, 2008, 18:11:01 pm
I didnt say i dont know, i said i know same as u because i read Irregular usage of uzi same as u, i suppose, and i know in which situations u can/cant use Uzis..And i saw this case only when u asked me to check the forum, cuz before that i didnt know what ur asking me exactly and whats happening...

This case was exactly the question I asked you, and I simply screenshotted your reply, Brains, theres no difference.
Title: Re: Case Enquirey - Textbook Updated required
Post by: Hank_Rafferty on August 16, 2008, 21:26:31 pm
The situation was the following.
Two suspects in one car.

escaping vehicle: Oceanic or Glendale (visual tune)

wanted for: Infringement of a public order.

We got a call for a code 3 chase from East LS area. Me and my partner reported code 1 and 10 76,
when Captain Ghost reported 10 76, i told him negative becuase we didnt need more
units for that chase. When me and my partner spotted the suspects at LV-LS freeway,
Captain Ghost and Sergeant Hunter already chased them, plus the unit who reqested backup.
Also some other free cop units was on the scene.  Before the escaping suspects could reach Montgomery,
their car blew up and changed to escaping on foot. Me and my partner followed the female suspect
named Nina Belinsky who seemed to be unarmed and didnt cause threat to officers or to civilians.
Captain Ghost was driving the cruiser 56A41, where Sergeant Hunter was the operator. The sergeant
opened fire with uzis from the car at the possible unarmed running suspect. When the captain stopped
their cruiser, Hunter left the car too and continued the firing with the uzis. When this happend there was no
fast cars near by, and still his action was against the ARPD rules.

The rules when you are allowed to use Uzis or other special weapons against person. :

Quote
On foot
 1.When the suspect is heavily-armed, the ARPD officer can use the Uzis against him. (vehicle/person)

 3.If the ARPD officer's life is in direct danger against armed suspect(s), he can use the ARPD issue sub-machine guns. (vehicle/person)


As you see in the police rules, the situation didnt require uzi usage at all, and drive bying at person was completle wrong.

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