Argonath RPG Police Department

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Matthew Carter on July 18, 2014, 17:53:37 pm

Title: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on July 18, 2014, 17:53:37 pm
So, lately, there have been alot of trolls who have no intentions other than abusing and trolling, looking "funny".
They go around, aim weaponry at unarmed civilians, shoot at suspects which aren't armed until they die, make other people's vehicle explode, ram and such.
This is simply not fun and it ruins the reputation of SAPD. They can't simply be copbanned for some reason, like "roleplay evidence", like how can trolling and abusing even be roleplay, it's more of an administrative matter.
So, why not make SAPD closed? only way to access SAPD duty is by making an application on forums. Basically, there's nothing much to change, you just don't go into the star and LSPD and go on duty, you apply on forums, command or whoever reviews your application, if person seems mature enough, he can be given basic exam which is currently given to SAPD officers, those who join the duty first time and then if they pass, they can be added to SAPD group.
That way, we'll have mature, trustful and professional SAPD officers, who really wish to be in police and who wish to play as an police officer, not as clown which has task to ruin reputation of someone and something.

I know this won't really happen, but let's give it a try, I wanna know how many people support this, maybe if enough of us are supporting this, things could change.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Andrew Banks on July 18, 2014, 17:57:22 pm
We would do it if Gandalf would allow it.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: James Moretti on July 18, 2014, 18:19:44 pm
Fully supported. The amount of trolls is getting higher and higher. In RS4 with the large playerbase I supported the fact that everyone was given a chance to join the force easily but currently.. We're spending more time on chasing and arresting officers than actual suspects. This has to end now.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on July 18, 2014, 18:29:24 pm
Today corleones were going around and abusing citizens.
Aiming guns at unarmed people, giving tickets for "black driving", tried to throw me in water while I was trying to tell them regulations, failed to stop to the FBI, refused to give investigation to civilian - they don't roleplay, they do it just to annoy the shit out of people.

The report system with "RP evidence" protects that kind of people who don't roleplay, because you can't report someone with roleplay evidence if the person who is to be reported doesn't roleplay.


Then some time ago, l***9*ly did the same crap, 1 week, no action was taken even with all the carjacking, ramming, DM, misuse of radio, failure to cooperate with orders of high ranks.
Like, what are we even talking about?
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: James Moretti on July 18, 2014, 18:34:39 pm
Already copbanned two with the help of Leon. But when there's no sergeant online, we can't do anything either.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Allison on July 18, 2014, 18:40:32 pm
As much as a lot of people would like this to happen, it won't for one reason: Argonath Vision. SAPD in the past has tried to become a more closed division, even then the entire idea was shot down.
I don't see this happening in the future at all.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Chief J. Schappell on July 18, 2014, 18:41:36 pm
No. This violates the Argonath Vision, which is why it has always been denied.

If you don't like people abusing, teach them before they do it. If you catch them do it later, try to correct them. If they refuse to listen, report them. The system worked fine for quite some time. The only reason why more issues are coming up now is because people have become lazy, and refuse to help out new players...
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: James Moretti on July 18, 2014, 18:43:10 pm
No. This violates the Argonath Vision, which is why it has always been denied.

If you don't like people abusing, teach them before they do it. If you catch them do it later, try to correct them. If they refuse to listen, report them. The system worked fine for quite some time. The only reason why more issues are coming up now is because people have become lazy, and refuse to help out new players...

It's the veterans that misbehave. And if we copban, they just go inactive for a week and then come back doing the exact same thing. Won't make a difference. 20 percent of the officers are currently trolling. Which is a large amount considering the fact that nearly 60 percent of the server is police most of the time.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on July 18, 2014, 18:46:01 pm
Copbans aren't permanent solution. Such people won't change. They are the reason of this:
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=106787.0 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=106787.0)
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=106878.0 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=106878.0)
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=106804.0 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=106804.0)

What if the argovision became shortsighted? It needs to be corrected.
That's like creating something new in technology which is better and more organized, but keeping the older one which is broken just because you like it.

PS ARFD commissioner:
(http://i.imgur.com/g7ozgBg.png)

Your firemen aren't able to provide assistance in needed situations such as car accidents, fire scenes which do not involve real scripted fire which provides free money, on injured officer scene etc..
I quite often see firemen growing weed, racing at LSFD or simply being AFK
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Chief J. Schappell on July 18, 2014, 19:00:48 pm
No. This violates the Argonath Vision, which is why it has always been denied.

If you don't like people abusing, teach them before they do it. If you catch them do it later, try to correct them. If they refuse to listen, report them. The system worked fine for quite some time. The only reason why more issues are coming up now is because people have become lazy, and refuse to help out new players...

It's the veterans that misbehave. And if we copban, they just go inactive for a week and then come back doing the exact same thing. Won't make a difference. 20 percent of the officers are currently trolling. Which is a large amount considering the fact that nearly 60 percent of the server is police most of the time.
If it is Veterans, then the solution is simple: Harsher punishments for those who already know the rules, but insist on breaking them anyway. Report them. Plain and simple.

What if the argovision became shortsighted? It needs to be corrected.
It cannot become shortsighted because it is not meant to change. It is what Argo was founded on. If you do not agree with it, you are welcome to create your own community elsewhere with the values you see fit. We will not hold that against you, as it is your choice...but our own Vision will never be changed just because of the opinions of a select few. If we did that, this community would be far beyond what its original intentions were, and would be just like every other one out there.

PS ARFD commissioner:
(http://i.imgur.com/g7ozgBg.png)

Your firemen aren't able to provide assistance in needed situations such as car accidents, fire scenes which do not involve real scripted fire which provides free money, on injured officer scene etc..
I quite often see firemen growing weed, racing at LSFD or simply being AFK
Those are not my "firemen". Those are Volunteer Firefighters. There is a place to report issues. If you fail to do that, it is not my fault. This is also not the place to discuss this, so don't try to pick fights to make your arguments work.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Leon Arallian on July 18, 2014, 19:05:18 pm
What good can come from limiting the freedom that we give to all, all due to a small number of fools who can get an appropriate punishment for their behavior?

Because there isn't any answer that can justify this proposal in my eyes.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on July 18, 2014, 19:09:06 pm
all due to a small number of fools who can get an appropriate punishment for their behavior?
They don't get that appropriate punishment.
24hour copban just makes them laugh.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: James Moretti on July 18, 2014, 19:13:15 pm
On top of that, the people who do have the power to do so aren't always around. I've had multiple cases in which I was able to investigate the acts but as you know, Special Agents can't do much except Observe, investigate and file a report. Which then will be there, catching dust.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: [WS]Mike on July 18, 2014, 19:22:30 pm
Nice idea, we just can't do it. Limits players, which in turn, is against the vision.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: PulseEffect on July 18, 2014, 19:46:34 pm
There are further powers, which the department could be using to deal with these officers; things like courts (sue 1 million?? for continuously abusing??) and Mordor (1 day sentence)

Think beyond the mind instead of trying to make the department more restricted.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Rusty. on July 18, 2014, 19:53:31 pm
I love nothing more than to see SAPD as a closed group where you had to apply via these forums, but since Argonath doesn't support such ideas it just gets shot down each time.  Against the vision?  Don't play that old card again and again vision already tarnished since alot of in-game features restricted to specific groups.  Copsbans aren't supposed to be a permanent solution it's simply a way to stop them from doing it again within a short time span, you can always report them to the staff members online as abusing commands, trolling with intentions to ruin other people's fun is all against the rules. 

I know how you feel Matthew.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Spike on July 18, 2014, 20:06:31 pm
I would like SAPD as a closed group. Just today I was trying to do a Kidnapping RP Scenario as a hostage with Padres. The guys just came to us, rammed the vehicle killed Padres and left with out RPing with me as an injured hostage. This definitely makes SAPD look bad. I would like Gandalf to read this and make SAPD a closed group. I would also like that the officers which are not in the SAPD Group could be warned by SAPD Senior Command+. I would like that there was a max amount of 5 warnings. If you got to 5 warnings you would be cop banned for a week, with more 1 warning a day would be added to the cop banned time, and then on.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Rusty. on July 18, 2014, 20:28:22 pm
You know the names of these rambo cops?
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Spike on July 18, 2014, 20:37:22 pm
The only ones I have in my mind area, podbot and Miriani08021
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Chase on July 18, 2014, 20:45:39 pm
Right, I agree cop ban isn't the solution for regulars. A server ban is more appropriate for regulars who choose not to be competent and troll. Unfortunately no one is willing to take the steps needed to get them out of the server.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on July 18, 2014, 21:04:56 pm
If so many people agree, high ranks, admins, managers then why not listen?
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Leon Arallian on July 18, 2014, 21:13:08 pm
If so many people agree, high ranks, admins, managers then why not listen?
As said before it breaches the vision, which is the core foundation that the server is built upon. Under no circumstances will it be changed/avoided.

Besides, I repeat: What good can come from limiting SAPD to be application-only? It only brings harm for those who want to be on duty without applying to the SAPD, to go through the application process which takes time, and to even risk denial from the process because they cannot reach the requirements.
A large number of SAPD officers are properly behaving, and to limit the freedom all because of a few bad apples is just wrong.

Other communities have the system you desire so much, and Argonath simply remains a world of its own. Locking down cop duty ruins it for all, and it simply disappoints me to even see the SAPD command agree with this.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Martin Solonik on July 18, 2014, 21:30:56 pm
I would like to point out that today, we, the Corleones were trolling because of the lack of criminal role-play. We are just sitting down all day long waiting for a Luciano to drive-by and shoot us with their combat shotguns.

So we join the SAPD to troll around and have some fun. Duo the lack of script features for criminals we have to do something else. I hereby present the today's accident,

Alphonse Corleone.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Timothy_Reeds on July 18, 2014, 21:33:28 pm
If so many people agree, high ranks, admins, managers then why not listen?
As said before it breaches the vision, which is the core foundation that the server is built upon. Under no circumstances will it be changed/avoided.

Sorry but we're in 2014.

Besides, I repeat: What good can come from limiting SAPD to be application-only? It only brings harm for those who want to be on duty without applying to the SAPD, to go through the application process which takes time, and to even risk denial from the process because they cannot reach the requirements.
A large number of SAPD officers are properly behaving, and to limit the freedom all because of a few bad apples is just wrong.

A large number? Uhm, I don't think so. If you call "SAPD officers" those who just go on duty to catch the criminals then we're talking about something totally different. At the current players average there are just too much police officers "hunting" either criminals or suspects just to earn some cash from it. They're getting frustrated and they begin to abuse players, especially the new ones.

I'm pretty sure this idea would be improving the server and get rid of the cops and robbers aspect.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Kevin_Arens on July 18, 2014, 21:42:08 pm
What good can come from limiting SAPD to be application-only?

More professionalism, better pursuits, better radio communication, no trolls, family feeling, higher level of trainings, more roleplay, better reputation,better knowledge of regulations,..
Why are we giving those trainings in the academy? To improve the skills of the Officer.

It only brings harm for those who want to be on duty without applying to the SAPD, to go through the application process which takes time, and to even risk denial from the process because they cannot reach the requirements.

I'm sure that almost everyone that is on cop duty is a Probationary Officer already.
Who cannot reach the requirements?
We teach them in the academy.
If you cannot pass the interview, then you are weak imo.
And I hate it that Mafia/Gangs/Criminals can join cop duty, they only come to troll and give us a bad reputation.

It simply disappoints me to even see the SAPD command agree with this.

I agree with the SAPD CMD, why are you disappointed? They only want the SAPD to be professional and they want to move forward.
ARPD and SAPD was much better than it is now.
I understand Gandalf, he wants everyone to be equal but some things are not working.
And to be honest, the SAPD in RS4 was much better, I had a family feeling and everyone was professional etcetera.
I miss that feeling in RS5.
Now it is moaning on the radio, '10-3' , reports, fights for money, trolling,..
SAPD and ARPD was better than SAPD.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on July 18, 2014, 21:47:15 pm
Perhaps if argo vision wants people to enter any duty when they want, maybe then open the volunteer officer duty again who gets nitestick and pepper spray, with no ability to /Su.
Those who want more can apply for SAPD.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: DarkShadowBlade on July 18, 2014, 23:52:17 pm
Here's a short quote: "If people find out you're nice, they can walk all over you." If Argonath is too nice and forgiving to all these "trolls" they will walk all over it.

Nothing else needs to be said. If Argonath can't tighten itself and become far more harsh for idiotic garbage like "trolling" it's going to be an abused server. And to be honest, it already is, just look at youtube and see how many people come and hack and ban evade on this server. It's saddening and disgusting, but nothing can be done. It's Gandalf's choice, not ours. Only 2 solutions appear here. 1. Sergeants need to be more active. 2. Allow Supervisory Officers to Cop Ban (Plus they need to be more active). I see no other solution. Unless you want to tell Gandalf how much people like to screw with his server and the divisions, it's probably going to stay the same way. SAPD can't change unless Argo changes. And it won't.

 Maybe try talking to the SA:MP Division Leader Devin or a Community Leader, and see if they have anything to add concerning this.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Padres_Rosso on July 19, 2014, 03:06:30 am
Let's all put the cards on the table. Argonath started glorious in 2006 and pushed its way perfectly through several issues, problems, bad and good encounters, up to 2014 when RS5 was released. RS5 changed the whole server -- no -- not just the server, the community. People change, come and leave and who can we accuse for that? The answer isn't even that easy to answer. Most accuse the scripters, some Gandalf himself, some also accuse the players for leaving too rapidly. Now since the start of RS5 argonath started to get into a critical point, losing players day for day, nothing is like in the old days anymore which might mean that we need a new start.

That new start may really include a change in the vision, maybe just for a temporary amount of time to get the server back stable and motion players to do something else than doing copduty as excuse to DM or money-farm. As previously stated the SAPD is really losing their reputation because of a lack of experienced officers willing to teach new ones - or because of that huge amount of trollers attempting to annoy the f**k out of other people.

Forcing SAPD Recruitment only would hopefully make players realise that there are alot of other roles they can play as. And accepting the fact that SAPD is a closed group then we can enforce heavier rules with more roleplay involved. Officers will be specialized in RP and will lead by example.

However. The decision is solely based on Gandalf's opinion and we should all respect that.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Chief J. Schappell on July 19, 2014, 06:10:28 am
Against the vision?  Don't play that old card again and again vision already tarnished since alot of in-game features restricted to specific groups.
Tarnished? I think not. There's no card being played here. These rules have not changed since the day the community was founded. If you find that someone is violating the Vision, you should be shooting an email to one of the community's email addresses to report it.

Sorry but we're in 2014.
Then you are welcome to go elsewhere. The Vision won't change just because you think it is outdated.



The server is not the problem. The players are. Find ways to deal with the abusers, not ways to "prevent" them from joining, just so you can close them off from the rest of the game. Restricting SA:MP SAPD will do nothing more than avoid the problem instead of dealing with it directly.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on July 19, 2014, 07:44:55 am
Quote
These rules have not changed since the day the community was founded.
Meanwhile the community players changed and those rules don't fulfill the act of some players.

Quote
not ways to "prevent" them from joining
Of course, it's always good to have few trolls on duty to waste time on and get PMs and 911 calls of abuse, threats and misuse.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Marcus Ferreira on July 19, 2014, 09:21:34 am
I would like Gandalf to read this and make SAPD a closed group.
:lol:
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Leon Arallian on July 19, 2014, 10:30:33 am
Of course, it's always good to have few trolls on duty to waste time on and get PMs and 911 calls of abuse, threats and misuse.

We have told you a good number of times that you must report these trolls to SAPD command or even the Admin team if required...
If you restrict the group, consider the fact you are taking the opportunity of many others away, as others tried to say.

Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on July 19, 2014, 10:36:00 am
Of course, it's always good to have few trolls on duty to waste time on and get PMs and 911 calls of abuse, threats and misuse.

We have told you a good number of times that you must report these trolls to SAPD command or even the Admin team if required...
If you restrict the group, consider the fact you are taking the opportunity of many others away, as others tried to say.
Quote
They don't get that appropriate punishment.
24hour copban just makes them laugh.

If the closed SAPD ain't gonna happen, I suggest permanent copbans or just stricter copbans which would last longer.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Leon Arallian on July 19, 2014, 10:48:13 am
I suggest permanent copbans
Possible, but not preferred/accepted well. I do admit: I now imagine an unban request for cop duty.

Stricter copbans which would last longer.
Ultimately comes down to the person holding the rights. It's common sense that repeated behavior will get a longer punishment, however.
Who knows, it might even cause a server banishment in rare cases.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Will on July 19, 2014, 11:39:46 am
Take it into consideration, the number of officers online will be decreased significantly.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Spike on July 19, 2014, 13:19:30 pm
well yes it will be decreased but RP will increase.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: James Moretti on July 19, 2014, 13:25:51 pm
I do admit: I now imagine an unban request for cop duty.


Would love this.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Spike on July 19, 2014, 13:37:13 pm
I do admit: I now imagine an unban request for cop duty.


Best Idea ever

Would love to see this.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Miyamoto Parker on July 19, 2014, 13:55:33 pm
I do admit: I now imagine an unban request for cop duty.


Interesting this idea.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Milano Alvarez on July 19, 2014, 14:10:57 pm
I do admit: I now imagine an unban request for cop duty.


Interesting this idea.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Ryan Harrison on July 19, 2014, 17:37:26 pm
Fully supported. The amount of trolls is getting higher and higher. In RS4 with the large playerbase I supported the fact that everyone was given a chance to join the force easily but currently.. We're spending more time on chasing and arresting officers than actual suspects. This has to end now.
This.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Jake Parker on July 19, 2014, 18:26:57 pm
I do admit: I now imagine an unban request for cop duty.


Interesting this idea.
Well indeed I guess we can solve a bog part of the problem with it and we can discuss about the banned player his behavior on duty it might gets more word for the SAPD command but it removes alot of work due constantly handling the same officer or am i wrong?
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Francisco Martinez on July 19, 2014, 22:57:27 pm
Argonath has lost players, lots of them. Restricting police duty would make more people not interested. Player base would drop even more.

Argonath Vision... yeah right. It's called management and being smart.


I know this won't really happen, but let's give it a try, I wanna know how many people support this, maybe if enough of us are supporting this, things could change.

You must be new around here...
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on July 20, 2014, 07:44:39 am
I'm here since 2011, I ain't old but I ain't new either, however who ever starts talking about joining date that's pure nonsense. If there's someone new trying to implement something new and change stuff, then he should be encouraged to do so.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Plam Knight on July 20, 2014, 08:24:44 am
I'm here since 2011, I ain't old but I ain't new either, however who ever starts talking about joining date that's pure nonsense. If there's someone new trying to implement something new and change stuff, then he should be encouraged to do so.

I don't think he is trying to brag with the year he joined, but he rather asked you weather you are new, based on the fact you call this "idea" a "new" thing, considering SAPD used to be a closed group not long ago and as I've previously said some of you show great enthusiasum, but you've clearly not checked how exactly Argonath operates and you can make as many ideas/polls you want, some things are simply out of the control of SAPD Command and this is one of them.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on July 20, 2014, 08:58:05 am
Never said this is a new idea, I know it's been suggested before but I want to give it another try.
Better to try and suggest something than go ingame and moan how everything sucks like most of people do since RS5.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Plam Knight on July 20, 2014, 09:04:10 am
Never said this is a new idea, I know it's been suggested before but I want to give it another try.
Better to try and suggest something than go ingame and moan how everything sucks like most of people do since RS5.

In a sense the system that was not too long ago was closed, but the actual idea of removing the lowest accessible rank and to make SAPD an internal group was indeed suggested, denied and it will probably be denied for a long time ahead. I won't say Argonath Vision cuz that sentence is far too overused, considering people rub off anything with it. But this idea was already denied multiple times for the very reason "It goes against Argonath Vision." and belive me a lot of people have tried to achieve that, including old SAPD commands that go way back in to the years and I belive even the most recent command staff have attempted that as well, sadly the only answer you get is "Argonath Vision", so there is no point to make another topic 20 pages long, just to end with the same outcome as the many before it.

And in a sense this idea would completely kill Argonath with the player base issues it has recently.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on July 20, 2014, 09:44:15 am
Alright, what about the permanent copban and copban unban requests which Leon mentioned?
or maybe just return volunteer officers who get nitestick, pepper spray and maybe desert eagle with 1 magazine, with no ability to /su?
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Francisco Martinez on July 20, 2014, 12:34:24 pm
Alright, what about the permanent copban and copban unban requests which Leon mentioned?
or maybe just return volunteer officers who get nitestick, pepper spray and maybe desert eagle with 1 magazine, with no ability to /su?

Look here:
Quote
2.   Argonath gives equal rights to new, experienced and admin players. We do not discriminate between players, and having admin rights or being a long time player does not give any of our players rights to act as better, higher or having more status as another.

This is the second point of Argonath Vision. I do understand you're trying to help, but I suggest you think about things from all points of view.

Nitestick + pepper spray + desert eagle with 7 bullets + no /su = Troll. It would make people go on duty just to kill the guy that annoyed him on Pershing square.
Player base would drop, again.

We have to work with the system we currently have and shape it, a total revolution won't happen now. The idea must be done by experienced members and old command staff in order to keep Gandalf's idea alive, but also restricts SAPD a bit.



Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on July 20, 2014, 13:23:32 pm
Good luck attempting to roleplay to ya'll while we have such people online then.
(http://i.imgur.com/1CXspd9.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/wdLf9Yt.png)
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Leon Arallian on July 20, 2014, 13:33:48 pm
This board exists for a reason. (http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?board=52.0)
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Francisco Martinez on July 20, 2014, 13:36:55 pm
You must be mature enough to RP with trolls nearby, that comes with experience trust me. If he goes against the rules just report him!
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on July 20, 2014, 14:00:50 pm
This board exists for a reason. (http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?board=52.0)
Mang can report him as he was recording with audio recorder. My pictures aren't roleplay evidence.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: [WS]Mike on July 20, 2014, 15:30:57 pm
For the second time, stop with the pictures. As Leon said, there are appropriate channels to handle those scenarios in the complaints board.

Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Zaila on July 20, 2014, 16:30:34 pm
I know this won't really happen, but let's give it a try, I wanna know how many people support this, maybe if enough of us are supporting this, things could change.

No matter how many support this, it wont happend.

Instead of talking about SAPD become a closed group, talk about what you can do to improve SAPD.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Jake Parker on July 20, 2014, 17:45:00 pm
Well i will note it down again is it allowed to copban strict and make the unban requests for police duty?
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: [WS]Mike on July 21, 2014, 01:54:41 am
Well i will note it down again is it allowed to copban strict and make the unban requests for police duty?

Not at this time
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Chief J. Schappell on August 03, 2014, 23:45:30 pm
The "unban requests" for permanent copbans is a clever and interesting idea that could be useful for those who are constantly being repeat offenders...however I definitely would not recommend such a system for temporary copbans, nor for new players that keep getting into trouble. A permanent copban would be a very serious thing that should only be used for a very serious offender.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Leon Arallian on August 04, 2014, 00:02:25 am
A permanent copban would be a very serious thing that should only be used for a very serious offender.
I've seen a few cases where this could be applied  ;)
(Two justifiable ones at least.)
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: DarkShadowBlade on August 04, 2014, 04:00:50 am
I know this won't really happen, but let's give it a try, I wanna know how many people support this, maybe if enough of us are supporting this, things could change.

No matter how many support this, it wont happend.

Instead of talking about SAPD become a closed group, talk about what you can do to improve SAPD.

I've already got an idea in the formation :3 You can't ask for a better department... But you can train for one... Once I get the proper feedback from other Academy Instructors and Cmd. I see my idea happening. The proper training for all will happen.

What we're going to close off is the amount of trolls we have in SAPD. We're going to close off the lack of knowledge SAPD has and form a much better, much more knowledgeable department.

Also concerning the fact about people in SAPD messing up. They get dealt with eventually. While it's not pretty to watch them give us a bad name I think we can actually help out the department by just handing the knowledge to the uneducated. Some of the "trolls" don't mean to troll. They're just not educated well. I'm pretty sure I would've been kicked out of SAPD if I wasn't taught well. When I started in RS4, I was learning fast but had problems adapting to Argonath. Eventually people helped me (Thanks to the RS4 Community) and I learned. While closing off the SAPD may sound like a good idea, I think we'll just end up kicking out the people that don't mean it and want to try to learn; Some people need to be closed off but not all...
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Matthew Carter on August 04, 2014, 08:00:12 am
Training will indeed help those who want to progress in SAPD, however it won't help those with intentions to just mess with their family enemies with /Su.
The training is a great idea tho.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Jake Parker on August 04, 2014, 17:33:39 pm
I know this won't really happen, but let's give it a try, I wanna know how many people support this, maybe if enough of us are supporting this, things could change.

No matter how many support this, it wont happend.

Instead of talking about SAPD become a closed group, talk about what you can do to improve SAPD.

I've already got an idea in the formation :3 You can't ask for a better department... But you can train for one... Once I get the proper feedback from other Academy Instructors and Cmd. I see my idea happening. The proper training for all will happen.

What we're going to close off is the amount of trolls we have in SAPD. We're going to close off the lack of knowledge SAPD has and form a much better, much more knowledgeable department.

Also concerning the fact about people in SAPD messing up. They get dealt with eventually. While it's not pretty to watch them give us a bad name I think we can actually help out the department by just handing the knowledge to the uneducated. Some of the "trolls" don't mean to troll. They're just not educated well. I'm pretty sure I would've been kicked out of SAPD if I wasn't taught well. When I started in RS4, I was learning fast but had problems adapting to Argonath. Eventually people helped me (Thanks to the RS4 Community) and I learned. While closing off the SAPD may sound like a good idea, I think we'll just end up kicking out the people that don't mean it and want to try to learn; Some people need to be closed off but not all...
I fully support this and i will be able to help you with it.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Huntsman on August 05, 2014, 11:08:49 am
I agree with this suggestion. SAPD should become application only organisation.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: AVMarcel on August 05, 2014, 11:45:23 am
The idea alone frightens me because it will repel new players which will in turn cause an even bigger drop in playerbase.

About the reporting and copbanning: why not leave it to the court? Let people report offending officers/agents to the court under a special board called "Government complaints". Judges bring verdicts, hand out a punishment if needed. Keeps a clear line between the offender, the 'victim' and the people judging the complaint, so the process is transparent and unbiased.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: James Moretti on August 05, 2014, 11:51:22 am
About the reporting and copbanning: why not leave it to the court? Let people report offending officers/agents to the court under a special board called "Government complaints". Judges bring verdicts, hand out a punishment if needed. Keeps a clear line between the offender, the 'victim' and the people judging the complaint, so the process is transparent and unbiased.

Because that process takes to long. We need it right there on the spot while it happens.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Leon Arallian on August 05, 2014, 11:54:00 am
Besides, it already exists right here (http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?board=144.0)  :neutral:
And works the same way and has the same timing most of the time.

Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: AVMarcel on August 05, 2014, 12:20:35 pm
About the reporting and copbanning: why not leave it to the court? Let people report offending officers/agents to the court under a special board called "Government complaints". Judges bring verdicts, hand out a punishment if needed. Keeps a clear line between the offender, the 'victim' and the people judging the complaint, so the process is transparent and unbiased.

Because that process takes to long. We need it right there on the spot while it happens.
Why would it take any longer than reporting it via the ARPD forums? Plus, it promotes roleplay without needing more scripts.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Jake Parker on August 05, 2014, 14:31:05 pm
Or the in game judging system like reporting it to the command an reporting it to the civil court the change there is on of the 2 online is big and it can be handled by the judges in game and on scene if there is non of the 2 online you can report them on the arpd forum. Anyone agrees with this? Included the command staff please let me know what you think of this solution.

Edit: If you like the idea, i have sorted out how we can do this.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: [WS]Mike on August 05, 2014, 18:34:09 pm
The SAPD will not become an application only group.

Judges will not reserve the right to issue punishments to officers on the field, or through a complaint. We work with FBI IA on certain cases if necessary.

"Cop-unban" is not something that can happen (from CBF himself)

I appreciate the feedback, but many of the suggested changes "being supported" by other people doesn't mean they will happen.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Nexus Riggs on August 06, 2014, 09:17:00 am
Never said this is a new idea, I know it's been suggested before but I want to give it another try.
Better to try and suggest something than go ingame and moan how everything sucks like most of people do since RS5.

In a sense the system that was not too long ago was closed, but the actual idea of removing the lowest accessible rank and to make SAPD an internal group was indeed suggested, denied and it will probably be denied for a long time ahead. I won't say Argonath Vision cuz that sentence is far too overused, considering people rub off anything with it. But this idea was already denied multiple times for the very reason "It goes against Argonath Vision." and belive me a lot of people have tried to achieve that, including old SAPD commands that go way back in to the years and I belive even the most recent command staff have attempted that as well, sadly the only answer you get is "Argonath Vision", so there is no point to make another topic 20 pages long, just to end with the same outcome as the many before it.

And in a sense this idea would completely kill Argonath with the player base issues it has recently.
Completely agree with Plam.

We can resolve these issues without considering "closed" SAPD by thinking of the alternatives. We have already taken bold steps within our current limits to ensure all officers entering the central department meets the eligibility requirements. In the past, there were attempts to make this happen and it never went through because it went against Argonath's principles.. In fact, we also admire Argonath's vision, because we had no issues with it in the past. In the early stages of SAPD, we had a great department, with great people who cared about the team, the leaders and the community. It is matter of retaining those core values we uphold in SAPD and training the current staff to shape the future, but nothing will happen with just conversations. People need to start making others aware of what's right and what's wrong, guiding the new officers, organizing patrols and making people understand the endless opportunities that they have. 
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Miyamoto Parker on August 07, 2014, 00:08:21 am
The SAPD will not become an application only group.

Judges will not reserve the right to issue punishments to officers on the field, or through a complaint. We work with FBI IA on certain cases if necessary.

"Cop-unban" is not something that can happen (from CBF himself)

I appreciate the feedback, but many of the suggested changes "being supported" by other people doesn't mean they will happen.
I agree with you.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Chase on August 08, 2014, 04:22:15 am
Judges will not reserve the right to issue punishments to officers on the field, or through a complaint. We work with FBI IA on certain cases if necessary.

"Cop-unban" is not something that can happen (from CBF himself)



Do keep in mind that FBI IA is not a replacement for administrative work that's needed for certain trolls who keep choosing to repeat their offenses after being told not to. But we will deal with cases of officers actually putting effort to roleplay their misuse of duty and corruption.


If this permanent cop ban idea is not on the table, then I would actually like to hear from administration on what is being done about these bad eggs. We can't keep copbanning them temporarily over and over, as they will simply get back on and continue.

Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Rusty. on August 09, 2014, 13:33:21 pm
Those who only on duty to troll/annoy/dm and be general assholes will eventually be server banned.

I would love nothing more than SAPD to be a closed group like FBI is.  Since Argonath RPG is stuck in a hole it doesn't want to come out of it just won't ever develop, no-one is trying to take away the "fun" from others by wanting it this way.  Cop duty is the most abused system in-game by far, if you see different then go get a thicker specs as you are oblivious to what I and many others see. 
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Plam Knight on August 11, 2014, 00:06:18 am
After I had a chance to think about it, I realised this topic is actually got posted at perfect time, its a time of change and a time during which the server is vulnreable while standing back up. And this topic should serve as way to open the eyes of the new officers that are coming in to the server. Ideas such as a "closed" department or very restricted department will never be accepted in Argonath, its just the way Argonath has built its way for the past 7-8 years. In a sense Argonath is cursed, but as well blessed - Its cursed due to the fact the way the server is managed and operates, there will never be a strict structure implemented in to SAPD to keep everything organised, simply because its not in Argonath's vision, but in the same time that is a blessing, because it gives us the oppurtunity to experiment on the field and build that serious structure on the field. Instead of posting ideas such as make "Closed SAPD" or  make stricter rules or etc... You should apply your idea in to the field, you should find people that share your views and together perform the job in the standard and manner you want, as long as that standard doesn't fall of the bare minimum SAPD has set.

Now some might say, well that's what multiple divisions have attempted to do in the past, but they were closed and people have said " SAPD dislikes them" and "command staff hates them". Well that is incorrect, during my time I've had to close some divisions and I was present in the upper command during times where previous chiefs have had to close divisions and I can assure you, there was a never a reason "We hate that division, so we will close it". The main problem that always occured with divisions is they started with generally with a nice and pure idea to serve and protect in a certain manner, but slowly with success and members they began to look at the division as a way to obtain power and force their wishes, they started to encourage their members to follow other chain of command that orders them not to follow the SAPD Command and they attempted to force the SAPD/Owners in to giving them official scripts and so forward...

What I am trying to say with all that is the changes can come from you(the officers) and only you, no command staff or anybody else can force changes, without officers to follow them, if you wish stricter SAPD then apply it yourself, show strictness and professionalism yourselv and pass it on to the officers next to you and in no time you will see people that only use the duty as a way for free weapons or simply to troll will be standing out of the normal officers and will be quickly dealt with.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Huntsman on August 12, 2014, 15:49:37 pm
Inn a sense Argonath is cursed, but as well blessed

The first thing that came to my mind :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpTizzox2Qo#t=413 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpTizzox2Qo#t=413)

its just the way Argonath has built its way for the past 7-8 years.

And that might be exactly what's wrong. Argonath is afraid of change.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: TinMan on October 28, 2014, 09:54:12 am
Being since Argonath changed to Cargonath I do indeed agree with this idea. 
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Nexus Riggs on October 28, 2014, 23:25:55 pm
Being since Argonath changed to Cargonath I do indeed agree with this idea.
Please refrain from bumping old topics.

With the current state of the server and the player count, it would be unwise to make SAPD a closed group. The bright side of SAPD being open to all is that it gives every player an opportunity to experiment our work, our structure and explore their options in law enforcement first hand. There will always be some that would disagree, which is completely okay, so it would be the best if this idea was rather proposed on the main forum where you can get direct and substantial response from the server leaders and owners who can make this type of changes to the police force.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Ronaldo on November 28, 2014, 11:03:51 am
Discussing it or not freecop system won't be removed as it goes against Argonath Vision which gives equal rights to play to all players.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Huntsman on November 28, 2014, 14:22:25 pm
Discussing it or not freecop system won't be removed as it goes against Argonath Vision which gives equal rights to play to all players.

Umm... As much as I appreciate your efforts to show us how much your attitude has changed over your absence in Argonath, I still think you moving around forums and posting in topics you have nothing to do with trying to look the Mr. all knowing wizard is rather... dumb.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Ronaldo on November 28, 2014, 15:08:21 pm
Discussing it or not freecop system won't be removed as it goes against Argonath Vision which gives equal rights to play to all players.

Umm... As much as I appreciate your efforts to show us how much your attitude has changed over your absence in Argonath, I still think you moving around forums and posting in topics you have nothing to do with trying to look the Mr. all knowing wizard is rather... dumb.

It was any open discussion and i give my point i didn't want to harm any one.
Title: Re: SA:MP - "closed" SAPD
Post by: Allison on November 28, 2014, 16:41:44 pm
This discussion has been over for some time. There is no point in continuing as an answer was given multiple times.

Next time, make sure you look at the date of the previous post. The last post before you bumped it also said to refrain from bumping old topics.

Topic locked.
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