Argonath RPG Police Department
GTA: San Andreas => SAPD Information Center => Topic started by: Monte Montague on August 03, 2014, 12:18:06 pm
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Dear Sirs,
I call upon a joint effort from ARPD and ARFD commisoners to bring an end to the constant use of Unmarked, Sirenless Sports cars being used by Firemen across the San Andreas State.
In the past I have adopted the position of Police Fire Liason Officer, who would escort the Firemen to and from their mission, but some wiseguy with a LT rank decided I was corrupt for doing so. (So I didn't do it again).
I think it is not in the favor of the safety of civilians for Firemen to be speeding around in unmarked siren-less sports vehicles.
I have continuously warned firemen to use a suitable vehicle for responding to fire Missions (despite criticism for doing so from my own colleagues who happen to be Snr Officer and think they know more, but a manager told me to ignore the trolls).
Regardless of permission from a suit I will now act to prevent Firemen from continuing their reckless behavior.
If you see requests for removal of suspect remember this thread, I believe it is required so...
I believe Firemen should be more accountable to their crimes compared to normal civilians.
There is too much neglect of duty, reckless endangerment, speeding, reckless driving.
- Regards
"Officer" [NP]Monte.Montague
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Agreed. But also the incorrect use of the actual firetrucks (using sirens and speeding when they aren't even driving to a call)
Perhaps it would be an idea to make the 'Only use sirens when reported C3 in radio' rule.
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Agreed. But also the incorrect use of the actual firetrucks (using sirens and speeding when they aren't even driving to a call)
Perhaps it would be an idea to make the 'Only use sirens when reported C3 in radio' rule.
ultimately i think the neglect of duty in such a huge amount is the fault of the lack of ARFD leadership.
Federal investigation me thinks.
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Federal investigation me thinks.
Objectives
1.Fighting drug production, distribution and use
2.Fighting illegal weaponry distribution
3.Stopping violent crimes
4.Investigate the organized crime
5.Investigate white collar crimes
6.Protect the life of the citizens
7.Protect high notoriety individuals
8.Assist police and other law enforcement agencies in their duties
9.Investigate and combat acts of corruption
10.Protect the civil rights
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Federal investigation me thinks.
Objectives
1.Fighting drug production, distribution and use
2.Fighting illegal weaponry distribution
3.Stopping violent crimes
4.Investigate the organized crime
5.Investigate white collar crimes
6.Protect the life of the citizens
7.Protect high notoriety individuals
8.Assist police and other law enforcement agencies in their duties
9.Investigate and combat acts of corruption
10.Protect the civil rights
Hmm. It'll have to be all down to me until the suits get here! :leroy2:
In all seriousness, this shit's got to stop.
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Agreed. But also the incorrect use of the actual firetrucks (using sirens and speeding when they aren't even driving to a call)
Perhaps it would be an idea to make the 'Only use sirens when reported C3 in radio' rule.
ultimately i think the neglect of duty in such a huge amount is the fault of the lack of ARFD leadership.
Federal investigation me thinks.
Only tools granted to us were the ability to take people to court or call police. Which one do you think is more effective?
Agreed. But also the incorrect use of the actual firetrucks (using sirens and speeding when they aren't even driving to a call)
Perhaps it would be an idea to make the 'Only use sirens when reported C3 in radio' rule.
Telling people that you are code 3 in radio isn't really needed but as long as they are code 3 responding to a scene correctly, then there is no issue. Things like driving unmarked vehicles and responding does not allow reckless driving or speeding and I strongly encourage officers to start enforcing laws on Firefighters.
The actual taking of fire engines is something again we can't do because it's like SAPD Officers taking police cruisers for non duty purposes.
I have continuously warned firemen to use a suitable vehicle for responding to fire Missions (despite criticism for doing so from my own colleagues who happen to be Snr Officer and think they know more, but a manager told me to ignore the trolls).
Whoever that Snr Officer was can and should be ashamed of themselves.
Whilst we are trying to fix the ARFD/SAFD Command Issues, we call upon SAPD and other law enforcement agencies to start enforcing laws upon Firefighters. If you think a firefighter did something seriously wrong, please report it to us at the ARFD Forum under the SA:MP Complaints section and I'll handle it accordingly otherwise you are free to fine, suspect or whatever you think is suitable for the current situation.
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I think the reason Fireman use those sport cars is because Extinguisher tends to put out fires faster then the truck so they get in sport cars and race to the scene to put out as much as they could (Since they put out 5 every 2-3 seconds). Maybe the spawn of these Fire Missions should stop and be restricted to ARFD only... Or change it back to the old system. I miss seeing EMS at every Fire Scene... Whoever made this atrocious fire system needs to be questioned on why they thought it would better roleplay and teamwork. It defiantly ruined teamwork and roleplay, if there was even much to begin with.
And it's a shame considering the fact that RP was thrown to us.. Airplane fires at the air port. Massive crash by the Stage in Rodeo... All of this. Ruined by self-centered players... Now you let extinguisher able to put out fires faster then the truck, what are you expecting? I'm not here to complain or start fights but just state the problem detailed like.
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I think the reason Fireman use those sport cars is because Extinguisher tends to put out fires faster then the truck so they get in sport cars and race to the scene to put out as much as they could (Since they put out 5 every 2-3 seconds). Maybe the spawn of these Fire Missions should stop and be restricted to ARFD only... Or change it back to the old system. I miss seeing EMS at every Fire Scene... Whoever made this atrocious fire system needs to be questioned on why they thought it would better roleplay and teamwork. It defiantly ruined teamwork and roleplay, if there was even much to begin with.
And it's a shame considering the fact that RP was thrown to us.. Airplane fires at the air port. Massive crash by the Stage in Rodeo... All of this. Ruined by self-centered players... Now you let extinguisher able to put out fires faster then the truck, what are you expecting? I'm not here to complain or start fights but just state the problem detailed like.
The simple thing is ARFD wasn't granted full scripts that acted similarly to ARPD/SAPD's. Hah at the idea of restricting fires to SAFD I believe, it won't happen. EMS being at every scene should happen, it's just no one goes on medical duty and attends fire scenes as much as before. Teamwork wasn't an issue back then, instead it was just, you have firetruck or extinguisher, now there's more variables in regards to teamwork. Roleplay was fairly.. "ok" back then, at this time it is still "ok" but should be improved.
The problem that Monte has stated is basically, that some firefighters think they are above law and that they can do anything like for example, growing weed on duty, using sports cars to respond recklessly with, the misuse of fire vehicles and various other abuses that have been long been not addressed or unable to be addressed.
Whilst you may think "Why not make a fire duty ban?", we can't, as Gandalf said that we would not be granted one for various reasons which won't be stated here.
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I don't care reporting firemen anymore, I caught ton of them growing weed, speeding around, ramming everyone infront of their way but it's useless, best command will do is verbally warn them, even if it goes to court it'll be canceled by SAFD command itself. Just put up to it and "use imagination" to spawn sirens on the civil cars.
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99% Firemen = moneyhungry newbies, rushing to a scene, as irresponsible as possible, not giving attention to using sirens, left-over firetrucks, not even caring to ever use the radio or even listen to other firefighters that are working hard and fair.
No reason to do such topics or report them, it is ''un-resolvable'', the only thing we can do for this to stop is to ban all moneyhungry-newbies.
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Think in solutions, not in problems. Gruia.
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99% Firemen = moneyhungry newbies, rushing to a scene, as irresponsible as possible, not giving attention to using sirens, left-over firetrucks, not even caring to ever use the radio or even listen to other firefighters that are working hard and fair.
No reason to do such topics or report them, it is ''un-resolvable'', the only thing we can do for this to stop is to ban all moneyhungry-newbies.
What he said is true.
It's time for actions not only for "imagination", enforce SAPD system into FD, -request- firemen to use fire vehicles on duty or face punishments. For example, ban from fireman duty.
Also what I think is that SAFD lacks active command personnel to supervise firemen.
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What he said is true.
It's time for actions not only for "imagination", enforce SAPD system into FD, -request- firemen to use fire vehicles on duty or face punishments. For example, ban from fireman duty.
Also what I think is that SAFD lacks active command personnel to supervise firemen.
We do lack active command staff to actually be online during peak hours, however what personnel we do have are in timezones where they aren't exactly able to be online.
The fireban system won't be added for various reasons, and I don't really understand it either. I previously requested some SAPD officers to aid us in enforcing duty requirements, though nothing came out of it.
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Generalization leads to the antagonization of oneself...
Anyways, to avoid taking the long road:
- Firemen responding to the mission in unmarked vehicles
I'm sure people want the same rule enforced as the one in the SAPD, but if we would, then how?
- Firemen recklessly driving
They've to rush to the mission in order to avoid: the fire from spreading/causing more damage/deaths.
And yes, they've to respond with sirens, and proceed with speed. But the laws are still in effect.
To solve this; we'd be hypocrites if we'd apprehend them in their firetrucks.
If they are in unmarked vehicles however, then we can apprehend them appropriately.
- Negligence on duty Pt. 1: Ignorance
The job of a firemen is to quickly extinguish the fire, You can't say they're doing wrong.
I'm amazed this has become a problem in the first place if you think about it. But why it is; is because of others.
Of course you'd expect everyone to have a go at the fire, but if one person does it all by himself then others have come for naught.
A solution would be to force certain percentages, but other problems can arise from that.
It's disappointing everyone sees a fireman as a greedy troll. While this may be true, I have recently considered treating "moneyhungry" as an insult, because it is used as one.
A solution to the money-grabbers would be to equalize payments, but other problems arise from this too: people may have done too much or too less and they still get the same amount: The hard workers will be mad, and the lazy ones have made gold by sleeping.
Ergo: this problem cannot be solved, there will always be a catch: The fireman script is a monkey's paw. One's wish will always have a catastrophe in result.
Is it possible to avoid this? Yes, and I will leave others in finding the solutions. Mine simply is respect, Sure: you might've wasted time going to a mission to see it's already done, but hey, it means others have quite a dedicated spirit, and do make effort for this. You've gotta credit their stubbornness eventually.
- Negligence on duty Pt. 2: Doing time
When there's no mission, it has occured that many still drive around with the trucks et al.
Solution would be to force them to remain at the station, but they already do, most of the time :neutral:
It also occurs that people grow weed/order heroin.
Ordering heroin is rather obvious: Illegal to order, posess and distribute.
Growing weed is legal, but has recently been made punishable for firemen. If one's found comitting the act, you can sue him in court.
[/list]
Having given my two cents on the main points discussed, let's move on to the other point that is recently brought in:
I really do not want to repeat what I had said in the anecdote above, but I guess I must.
Each possible solution is a monkey's paw: A solution which will have catastrophic recoil.
We cannot simply punish people for doing their job. Indeed they've done most of the mission leaving others to bite the dust. But they've done what they should.
If you propose those people to be restricted from responding to the next, then they possibly will complain it's unfair.
With all honesty, the problem isn't those who are antagonized, but those who point the fingers.
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Firemen IRL respond in marked fire vehicles with sirens and lights, you can see them and hear them 5 streets ahead, specially in USA where they have christmas trees 24/7.
Only problem with current situation is that it's not realistic (ik it's light roleplay), but it's not appealing to see firemen ramming everything and everyone in their way just to take the fire down and gain some money...
It'd be better and more professional for argonath itself to have professional personnel in official and lawful jobs. Imagine someone comes and sees a fireman driving an infernus or a turismo and ramming people infront, he'd think it's stunt and freeroam server than RPG..
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Well, to improve their driving styles they've to train themselves :neutral:
The cars can be solved by enforcing the same rule as we have in the SAPD, but the main question for that is How.
In the end initiative and respect is required.
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Well indeed the same program as by SAPD but in the SAPD we have enough officers an commanding units who will make sure everyone drives in marked vehicles but still this jas to be handled by ARFD/SAFD and with our assistance to lower the traffic violators. We have to work together and even we have to do our job by pulling them over if they are endangering other civilians. If we focus on our job and the SAFD command will try to find a solution on that unmarked vehicle problem i guess we have beaten the problem pretty quick if every does what he must do, his/her job!
Edit: Or am I wrong? This is just how i think about it..
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Agreed. But also the incorrect use of the actual firetrucks (using sirens and speeding when they aren't even driving to a call)
Perhaps it would be an idea to make the 'Only use sirens when reported C3 in radio' rule.
ultimately i think the neglect of duty in such a huge amount is the fault of the lack of ARFD leadership.
Federal investigation me thinks.
http://arfd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=1900.0 (http://arfd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=1900.0)
Everyone is so quick to blame me and my team for something we announced a solution for long ago, and still has yet to be used by nearly every person who complains about something...
The cars can be solved by enforcing the same rule as we have in the SAPD, but the main question for that is How.
That brings up a good point. As of right now, we have no authority over ARFD Volunteer Firefighters, other than that of witnessing them neglect their duties and punishing via court trials, or calling you guys in when they break the law. Everyone tends to assume that I can personally solve this entire situation myself, yet time and again I have asked for the authority to do so, and have been told I cannot have it. In fact, up until SA:MP RS5 came out, I didn't even have a way to enforce promotions and demotions in ranks...and believe me, we had a lot of people impersonating on purpose just to piss me off.
Long story short, until I have a physical way to take on these problems, I'm left out in the dark to enforce anything upon these guys. The most I can do is ask them to stop, and hope they do, or try to show them the right way. The problem is that a majority of the trouble makers are not new players, but are regulars themselves who already know what they are doing is wrong...
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Long story short, until I have a physical way to take on these problems, I'm left out in the dark to enforce anything upon these guys. The most I can do is ask them to stop, and hope they do, or try to show them the right way. The problem is that a majority of the trouble makers are not new players, but are regulars themselves who already know what they are doing is wrong...
Alright I've read trough your forum with the statement that serious punishments will follow etc. Not to blame you ofcourse but Of i have readed it good you are able to punish them. Why isn't it happening then, or is there a better solution to show the fire department the rules and they will really apply them ingame same as SAPD it's hard but we can handle the officers isn't there a way to get te same method as the SAPD is using? (Strict and loud and clear with the rules)
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Thing is, you could take firemen to the court for negligence of duty: since it was recognized as a punishable offense.
Unless we can do the same, we're pretty much at the bottom of a well without a rope.
Besides, courtroom procedures aren't trials that happen in a minute or five :neutral:
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When Argonath Traffic Police was still a thing (the real one, not the fake one that was recently made and closed), I would always find myself and my team pulling over and instructing firemen in unmarked civilian vehicles speeding to the fire scene that they must use an emergency vehicles with lights and sirens equipped and turned on if their response includes bypassing traffic laws. This always was an issue.
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Hopeless situation.
The real criminals are right under our noses and we are unable to do a thing because of our ill prepared legal system.
I say the Chief just announces those speeding around in unmarked cars for no reason should be kill on sight.
:leroy2:
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I say the Chief just announces those speeding around in unmarked cars for no reason should be kill on sight.
:leroy2:
I say you serious up at once.
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I remember you telling everyone via the radio to stop doing it Dean / Monte, at the time of the event, a lot of the AV members and applicants where in fact the ones on duty I myself also was. I told them to start using engines and 90% of them in fact did go on and use the required vehicles.
But sometimes you cannot stop it, because the sight of money for some people makes them go crazy there was loads of events the other day when fire fighters where spraying each other in order to get more money from the fire missions. What I am trying to say is no matter how much you try this behaviour will not stop, unless the police spent nearly all their day watching the firefighters. The only way I can think this can be resolved, is bringing in a "fireman ban" sort of like the "cop ban" this will then prevent rule breakers on duty because if the PD cannot do it what gives the FD the right to continue and do it.
I just hope we can resolve this issue at once because it seems to be coming up a lot, I remember talking to Rusty about it before.
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Get all the SAPD officers driving cruisers first, then worry about other factions.
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Get all the SAPD officers driving cruisers first, then worry about other factions.
Well, as somoene who's not part of SAPD I have so far seen SAPD officers using only SAPD Cruisers.
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Get all the SAPD officers driving cruisers first, then worry about other factions.
Well, as somoene who's not part of SAPD I have so far seen SAPD officers using only SAPD Cruisers.
Well glad you don't see it but there are plenty of officers still not driving marked vehicles.
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Well glad you don't see it but there are plenty of officers still not driving marked vehicles.
Winds me up, and when they attempt to pull people over in unmarked cars is even worse.
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Well glad you don't see it but there are plenty of officers still not driving marked vehicles.
Winds me up, and when they attempt to pull people over in unmarked cars is even worse.
Well pull over and engage people you mean...
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It's a phenomenon that constantly repeats itself and must have a quick solution.
It's annoying to see firemen speeding in sports car that later when getting pulled over them beg me to forgive them and let them go, because there is a mission.
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We have to stop the cops from using unmarked cars then we can talk about firefighters....
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We have to stop the cops from using unmarked cars then we can talk about firefighters....
From 100 cops, 1-2 might use unmarked vehicle because they're not aware of rules.
Others might be returning to station.
From 100 firemen, 95 are using unmarked vehicles.
Other 5 are using firetrucks because they can't afford to buy personal vehicle.
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We have to stop the cops from using unmarked cars then we can talk about firefighters....
From 100 cops, 1-2 might use unmarked vehicle because they're not aware of rules.
Others might be returning to station.
From 100 firemen, 95 are using unmarked vehicles.
Other 5 are using firetrucks because they can't afford to buy personal vehicle.
Nope.
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We have to stop the cops from using unmarked cars then we can talk about firefighters....
From 100 cops, 1-2 might use unmarked vehicle because they're not aware of rules.
Others might be returning to station.
From 100 firemen, 95 are using unmarked vehicles.
Other 5 are using firetrucks because they can't afford to buy personal vehicle.
Nope.
Indeed there are much more officers using unmarked vehxiles each day and no they are NOT returning to station so my advice focus on the PD first as officer then bother the FD as the FD command has to handle this just like the SAPD does
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Rarely see any Officer using unmarked vehicles during the time am online (19:00 > whenever). If people are using them it's those unaware of the regulation, so simply let them know and we won't have a problem. If it's someone who hlds rank of Probationary Officer+ then you can file a report on them.
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Well, you see, SAPD Officers are restricted by SAPD Regulations and Procedures, because they apply to them as well and even someone who doesn't hold a probationary officer rank can get punished for violation of these procedures, and they clearly say that they must use a marked vehicle. Firemen, however, are a different story. SAFD has authority only over SAFD Applicants and members and we have no authority over volunteer medics and firemen. Our procedures and regulations apply only to SAFD due to server rules and lack of support towards SAFD from the server management in particular, therefore the only thing that restricts these guys are traffic tickets for speeding in a non emergency vehicle with no lights and sirens on...
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ticketsFTW