Argonath RPG Police Department

GTA: Vice City => VC:MP Complaints => [VC:MP] Closed Complaints => Topic started by: Salmonella on March 06, 2016, 18:38:39 pm

Title: 6/03/16 Senior Officer [WS]Sora_Blue
Post by: Salmonella on March 06, 2016, 18:38:39 pm

Report against: [WS]Sora_Blue

Name(s) of those reporting: =AV=Salmonella

Reasons: Repeated breach of VCPD regulations, bad behaviour towards fellow VCPD officers, being a shameful display to the public and being indifferent to all and any forms of rules and regulations, in his own words. Furthermore, failure to ask a suspect for surrender while using SeaSparrow on that suspect and not performing his tasks as a Senior Officer (giving training).

Evidence:

(http://i.imgur.com/phFBgsz.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/Fbcrre1.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/kJGGtnr.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/WR1UOrH.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/o2p41Jg.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/cmv5TJe.png)

Other Details:

First and foremost I'd like to say that I think it's a shame it has come to this. As the current VCPD leadership will know, this isn't the first time Sr. Officer Sora Blue has been reported for what he's being reported right now. It isn't the first time in recent days, either. I was hoping the given warnings would've put an end to it, but as I've learned today, that hasn't been the case.

While patrolling with Rapture and Sora, we came across various suspects resisting arrest. It's known to Sr. Officer Sora Blue that an unarmed suspect on the run can only be attacked with the nightstick or Colt 45 while the suspect is running. However, Sora instantly opened fire on the suspect when he was driven to a halt. Everyone else used nightstick on him and we had the situation under control, yet Sora opened fire with a shotgun on the almost idle suspect, and finished him off with another shot.

He was instantly corrected by myself and Officer Rapture, reminding him of the regulations and telling him how surprised we were that he used shotgun on such a helpless suspect. He then just said 'lol'.

As we proceeded our patrol we came across a suspect in a Skimmer. Sora was right to get the SeaSparrow, but as he arrived he did not ask the suspect, who is usually like to surrender when facing defeat, to actually surrender. He opened fire instantly and killed the suspect. He was then confronted again about it and elaborated a bit on the previous abuse of shotgun as well, saying, ''f**k regulations, none of you follow it'. This wasn't true, because in both cases everyone else used the correct weapons, even ARPD Officer Silviu, who just registered today.

While this all happened, VCPD Cadets were constantly asking him for training, whereupon he kept replying, ''I don't have time to give training'', while there was time. I asked Sora about this, and he said he told Chief Inspector Klaus he ''wasn't qualified to give training, nor does he know how to''. I don't know what the deal with that is, but as one of the few Senior Officers, he should make some time to help out the Cadets, especially when there was plenty of time.

After this, I thought everyone correcting him would've made a bit of an impact on Sr. Officer Sora, but sadly that wasn't the case. We came across a wreckless evader whom I'd suspected at Starfish Island. Soon after suspection, I neutralized his vehicle and the suspect fleed. Again, everyone used Colt .45 as per regulation, but Sora came in with a shotgun again, and executed the helpess newly registered suspect without warning.

After the second time I felt like I'd tried to resolve it with him enough and it was time to report him ...again. I really hoped something would've changed after everyone kept and keeps correcting Sora, but at this point I feel reporting him is the only thing left for me to do. A Senior Officer should be a rolemodel, not the opposite.

Title: Re: 6/03/16 Senior Officer [WS]Sora_Blue
Post by: Brian on March 06, 2016, 20:32:57 pm

The suspects were never driven to a halt until they got shot on the ground by me, they were fleeing for several minutes while we spammed /sur and so we were authorized to shoot. Nobody was idle, every single suspect tried to flee. Further more, there is no regulation stating we can only use nightsticks or colt 45 to stop a fleeing suspect. I'll show you exactly what is in the regulations;

Quote

Section 10: Weapon Procedures
10.5. VCPD Officer must warn the suspect ten seconds before opening fire.
10.8. VCPD Officer is allowed to open fire on a suspect evading in a vehicle without a warning. However, once the suspect is on foot and not threatening an officer, Procedure 10.5 must be followed.

Both have been done several times during the mentioned situations.

I've witnessed countless accounts of "regulation breaches" as you like to call by multiple VCPD Officers including you. Yet none of them were complained against. My behavior has nothing to do with how my performance is on the field, it's only you who has a problem with my "harsh" personality and way of speaking, only you. Nobody else has been complaining.

Regarding training cadets, there was a situation going on in which I did not have time to train anyone. Also, I've stated numerous times that I'm not the type to train cadets as that is not my field of expertise.
I've politely asked him to ask a different officer for training.


PS: I've had it with the continuous provocation you've been doing on me for the past several days, knock it off.

Title: Re: 6/03/16 Senior Officer [WS]Sora_Blue
Post by: Huntsman on March 06, 2016, 21:36:37 pm

The reporting officer asked me to post here, since I am the author of the original Procedures and Regulations, so I will.
Under the original edit, there used to be a point where it says that you can only use a Colt 45 against an unarmed suspect that poses no threat at all. So unless it has been edited without notifying the rest of the staff, it should still apply.
I would also like to add that while I was still serving under the VCPD, I myself have come to witness the mentioned officer being completely ignorant of the procedures and regulations as well. I think that the third screenshot pretty much sums up what expierences I had with the said officer during my stay here.

Signed,
Huntsman
Retired Snr.Officer

Title: Re: 6/03/16 Senior Officer [WS]Sora_Blue
Post by: Brian on March 06, 2016, 23:03:30 pm

Quote from: Huntsman on March 06, 2016, 21:36:37 pm

The reporting officer asked me to post here, since I am the author of the original Procedures and Regulations, so I will.
Under the original edit, there used to be a point where it says that you can only use a Colt 45 against an unarmed suspect that poses no threat at all. So unless it has been edited without notifying the rest of the staff, it should still apply.
I would also like to add that while I was still serving under the VCPD, I myself have come to witness the mentioned officer being completely ignorant of the procedures and regulations as well. I think that the third screenshot pretty much sums up what expierences I had with the said officer during my stay here.

Signed,
Huntsman
Retired Snr.Officer

I can confirm to you right now that it has been changed into the lines I posted above.

Title: Re: 6/03/16 Senior Officer [WS]Sora_Blue
Post by: Rapture on March 07, 2016, 03:46:32 am

Eye witness report:

Quote from: Brian on March 06, 2016, 20:32:57 pm

The suspects were never driven to a halt until they got shot on the ground by me, they were fleeing for several minutes while we spammed /sur and so we were authorized to shoot. Nobody was idle, every single suspect tried to flee.

This is not true, there were no long chases and you shot them almost the instant they got suspected, twice without asking to surrender.

Quote from: Brian on March 06, 2016, 20:32:57 pm

it's only you who has a problem with my "harsh" personality and way of speaking, only you. Nobody else has been complaining.

I complained about it, too.

Title: Re: 6/03/16 Senior Officer [WS]Sora_Blue
Post by: Brian on March 07, 2016, 03:54:58 am

Quote from: Rapture on March 07, 2016, 03:46:32 am

This is not true, there were no long chases and you shot them almost the instant they got suspected, twice without asking to surrender.

There were more than these 2 suspects in the time that we patrolled. Also, I've only shot one without asking to surrender as he was fleeing, I misread the chat in the second pic.

Quote from: Rapture on March 07, 2016, 03:46:32 am

I complained about it, too.

You never complained about it until now.

Anyway, I've talked with the officer in question in the VCPD chat. Feel free to check there for more info.

Title: Re: 6/03/16 Senior Officer [WS]Sora_Blue
Post by: Salmonella on March 07, 2016, 04:10:33 am

Quote from: Brian on March 06, 2016, 20:32:57 pm

The suspects were never driven to a halt until they got shot on the ground by me, they were fleeing for several minutes while we spammed /sur and so we were authorized to shoot. Nobody was idle, every single suspect tried to flee. Further more, there is no regulation stating we can only use nightsticks or colt 45 to stop a fleeing suspect. I'll show you exactly what is in the regulations;

Quote

Section 10: Weapon Procedures
10.5. VCPD Officer must warn the suspect ten seconds before opening fire.
10.8. VCPD Officer is allowed to open fire on a suspect evading in a vehicle without a warning. However, once the suspect is on foot and not threatening an officer, Procedure 10.5 must be followed.

Both have been done several times during the mentioned situations.

In two of the three cases the entire situations unfolded in a diameter of about 30 metres if you'd measure it up in real-life values. This alone means it was impossible for them to flee for 'several minutes'. It's simply not true that they were sufficiently warned or posed a big threat.

Basically, we're dealing with 3 situations where you pulled a shotgun on unarmed newbies. The first is shown in the first picture. He was suspected in that picture as well, so it can't have been two minutes. He was suspected in the same street. No long chases or nothing.

The second situation was a longer chase where you pulled shotgun again, but got killed by me accidentally, so you didn't get that kill, hence I didn't include it. Again, you were told that's not how it's done. That's the only situation where a chase lasted longer than 15 seconds.

The third situation resolved around the second picture presented as evidence. He got suspected for evading and reckless driving by me, after being asked to pull over. Then, as seen in the picture, he was told to pull over again by me, not to surrender. His car was then shot as he tried to evade. He got out of the car and ran for 2 seconds as you pulled a shotgun out and opened fire without asking to surrender.

In the VCPD Academy Weaponry Usage it clearly lists the Baton as the weapon to be used on unarmed suspects, for melee combat. Furthermore, it clearly says the shotgun is only to be used for ''heavy combat''. This isn't in the regulations topic, but another. The regulation was there according to the guy that wrote them. On top of that, it's -still- being taught in the academy to new cadets.

Quote from: Brian on March 06, 2016, 20:32:57 pm

I've witnessed countless accounts of "regulation breaches" as you like to call by multiple VCPD Officers including you. Yet none of them were complained against. My behavior has nothing to do with how my performance is on the field, it's only you who has a problem with my "harsh" personality and way of speaking, only you. Nobody else has been complaining.

I for one have not witnessed any other VCPD member breach regulation, and certainly not as much as you. I haven't seen anyone say ''f**k the regulations'' when they were corrected either, and then repeat the same mistake again. As for me breaking them myself, I'd be delighted to know when and how that happened.

Look, I'd complain just as much about someone else if they did what you did. I made the report because after multiple times of confronting and ''a lot of moaning'', as you call it, it didn't stop. Had someone else done this and been reported for it twice before already, I would've done that to them, as well.

Your performance on the field is mediocre at best according to others. I myself don't think it's too shabby and I've never not patroled with you or not cooperated with you because of your many errors. However, there's more we should look at -especially in a Senior Officer- than performance on the field. Any officer is a representative of the organization we're a part of and should be a rolemodel to those that aren't part of the VCPD. A Senior Officer is even more than that and should act as a rolemodel to the rest of the officers, including myself. You're basically VCPD's business card to the public and its employees, so your behaviour should be a lot better, AT LEAST in and around VCPD related situations and subjects.

As for the provoking and witchhunting accusation, I have done no such thing. Everything in these reports surrounds a patrol between me, you and Officer Rapture that started spontaneously and in a relaxed atmosphere. No provoking or witchhunting has been done in order to obtain or cause any of the things you're being reported for right now. Aside from that, I know when to keep my mouth shut and try to avoid situations that may cause you to get upset and enter a fit of rage, ever since the sea-sparrow-on-smuggler's-yacht fiasco and what preceeded it.

This shotgun usage on unarmed suspects, saying ''f**k regulations'' and then doing the same thing again 20 minutes later is just the tip of the iceberg. There's much more I think should be tended to and I've mentioned that in my original post. There's also the long history revolving around misconduct and yourself. Something has to change and I hope you're starting to realize that now after the conversation we just had in the VCPD chat.

---

Quote from: Brian on March 07, 2016, 03:54:58 am

Quote from: Rapture on March 07, 2016, 03:46:32 am

This is not true, there were no long chases and you shot them almost the instant they got suspected, twice without asking to surrender.

There were more than these 2 suspects in the time that we patrolled. Also, I've only shot one without asking to surrender as he was fleeing, I misread the chat in the second pic.

Quote from: Rapture on March 07, 2016, 03:46:32 am

I complained about it, too.

You never complained about it until now.

Anyway, I've talked with the officer in question in the VCPD chat. Feel free to check there for more info.

We're only talking about those 2/3 suspects when we're discussing those two cases. Just because you didn't do something wrong in another case doesn't void the fact that you did thrice.

Rapture complained the entire time with me today and in other scenarios as well. You can even see him telling me to take screenshots while you were misbehaving. You can see his reaction to you killing one of the suspects being ''wtf''. There was much more and you know it.

Title: Re: 6/03/16 Senior Officer [WS]Sora_Blue
Post by: Brian on March 07, 2016, 04:41:44 am

I'm not talking about these 2/3 particular suspects, I'm talking about the entire patrol as a whole as from what I understood in OP I was in misconduct the entire time.

Quote from: Salmonella on March 07, 2016, 04:10:33 am

In the VCPD Academy Weaponry Usage it clearly lists the Baton as the weapon to be used on unarmed suspects, for melee combat. Furthermore, it clearly says the shotgun is only to be used for ''heavy combat''. This isn't in the regulations topic, but another. The regulation was there according to the guy that wrote them.

Nothing about that is written in the current version of the guide.

Quote from: Salmonella on March 07, 2016, 04:10:33 am

This shotgun usage on unarmed suspects, saying ''f**k regulations'' and then doing the same thing again 20 minutes later is just the tip of the iceberg.

I've already explained to you in the chat what I meant with it.

Quote from: Salmonella on March 07, 2016, 04:10:33 am

As for the provoking and witchhunting accusation, I have done no such thing. Everything in these reports surrounds a patrol between me, you and Officer Rapture that started spontaneously and in a relaxed atmosphere. No provoking or witchhunting has been done in order to obtain or cause any of the things you're being reported for right now. Aside from that, I know when to keep my mouth shut and try to avoid situations that may cause you to get upset and enter a fit of rage, ever since the sea-sparrow-on-smuggler's-yacht fiasco and what preceeded it.

You've already cleared this issue for me on the chat and I hope we don't get to see this again so I'll drop it.

Quote from: Salmonella on March 07, 2016, 04:10:33 am

Rapture complained the entire time with me today and in other scenarios as well. You can even see him telling me to take screenshots while you were misbehaving. You can see his reaction to you killing one of the suspects being ''wtf''. There was much more and you know it.

He complained to you and not to me, that's the problem.

Title: Re: 6/03/16 Senior Officer [WS]Sora_Blue
Post by: Salmonella on March 07, 2016, 13:02:37 pm

Quote from: Brian on March 07, 2016, 04:41:44 am

Quote from: Salmonella on March 07, 2016, 04:10:33 am

In the VCPD Academy Weaponry Usage it clearly lists the Baton as the weapon to be used on unarmed suspects, for melee combat. Furthermore, it clearly says the shotgun is only to be used for ''heavy combat''. This isn't in the regulations topic, but another. The regulation was there according to the guy that wrote them.

Nothing about that is written in the current version of the guide.

Actually, it says exactly what I've said in the VCPD Academy, just, like I said, not in the regulations topic anymore.

But I mean, come on... The entire department knows this, I've been told myself by others that it's not allowed because I did the same by accident, After I made this report I asked 5 other officers about it, and they all told me you just can't use shotgun on unarmed suspects. It still riddles me how you can be the only one that apparently knew of this administrative loophole in the regulations and it's a shame you're resorting to that to try to get rid of the blame instead of just coming clean about it.

Quote from: Gruia on June 26, 2014, 20:18:47 pm

Nightstick (http://s23.postimg.org/5l8ckbm2f/nightstick.png) Place of Origin: United States (http://s16.postimg.org/l40tv7ach/rsz_flag_of_the_united_statessvg_1.png) Type of Weapon: Melee Fire Mode: None Caliber: None To be used during/for:  -Riots  -Combat with unarmed suspects	Colt M1911A1 (http://s28.postimg.org/eixaypn4p/rsz_pistol_gta3.png) Place of Origin: United States (http://s16.postimg.org/l40tv7ach/rsz_flag_of_the_united_statessvg_1.png) Type of Weapon: Pistol Fire Mode: Semi-Automatic Caliber: .45 ACP To be used during/for:  -Combat with low-health suspects  -Tire flattening
Woodstock Ithaca 37/Pump Action Shotgun (http://i.imgur.com/gC3uy5c.png) Place of Origin: United States (http://s16.postimg.org/l40tv7ach/rsz_flag_of_the_united_statessvg_1.png) Type of Weapon: Shotgun Fire Mode: Pump-Action Caliber: 12 gauge To be used during/for:  -Heavy combat  -Vehicle disabling

I don't think when three officers are discussing the regulations, after one of them just broke multiple, that same one should say ''f**k the regulations'' under any circumstances. Not even ''to get the others off his back'', which is what you explained to me was the reason.

Rapture complained the entire time in mainchat to you that day. There was no contact between us apart from the reminder to take screenshots. Everything we said to each other will also have been visible to you and all the 'complaining' has been done directly to you, just like mine.

Title: Re: 6/03/16 Senior Officer [WS]Sora_Blue
Post by: Klaus on March 08, 2016, 19:10:23 pm

1. Repeated breach of VCPD regulations
Brian you are guilty of breaching regulations. However I'll let you off since somehow the topic isn't complete and things are missing. Although this doesn't account for your lack of common sense when it comes down to police work. It is wrong to open fire on an unarmed civilian (unless escaping in a vehicle). If they are running on foot then chase them down, there is no reason to gun them down. Firstly its excessive force and secondly a waste of government ammunition. I expect no such situations to occur again as you have now been told about this.
2. bad behaviour towards fellow VCPD officers
You are also guilty of showing a lack of respect to fellow officers. This department is about working as a team and I do not want to see such poor behavior by a senior officer. Even if annoyed you should remain professional at all times. If provoked report it to command staff and stay calm. Internal issues are unwanted.
3. being a shameful display to the public and being indifferent to all and any forms of rules and regulations, in his own words.
This is the worse of all. You cannot justify your actions based on others actions. You are responsible for your own actions. If you do not want to follow regulations then I urge you to quit the department immediately. If I see more of this attitude you will be dealt with harshly. VCPD are known to be professional and as a senior officer you are to be a role model to all officers and cadets. So start acting properly and stop disgracing the department with foul language and bad attitude. 
4. failure to ask a suspect for surrender while using SeaSparrow on that suspect and not performing his tasks as a Senior Officer (giving training).
As for asking to surrender before opening fire, you should be well aware of such regulation. Any futher breaches of such regulation and you will be fired. As for giving training, not all senior officers are required to take part in the academy. They can do if they so wish to but is not compulsory.