Argonath RPG Police Department
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sago on October 05, 2010, 05:55:19 am
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Colors. You may think that this is a moan topic but Kirby is serious about this one. Listen up and listen good, i will give you the reality of the different rank colors.
Back in June 26, 2009 i remember seeing these dark blues in squad cars. Even the cyan cadet colors stood out to me. I thought "Hey, i want to be that". This dark blue was a goal for me, i lusted for it, i worked for it and on August 2nd i finally received it. Boy was i happy, i felt like i accomplished a great goal. This color represented that i worked for it and earned it honestly. I've earned my stripes and worked harder then i have ever before with SACS and Los Santos. I idolized about becoming an Academy trainer and a Sergeant throughout my career and was eventually reformed into LSPD. I walked around as a role model to the light blue free officers and cyan Cadets, those were the good days.
I remember logging in and seeing all the cops the same color. I thought this was some sort of joke because surely everything i have worked for was ripped from me until it was official. Man was i pissed, confused and disoriented but i learned to cope. Neither me or any of my team mates of the ARPD were role models anymore. In retrospect we were all equal. Sure, everyone being equal sounds great but the reality is that it caused more imbalance than the Colors did. Many people despised it and many approved of it. I was sort of in the middle leaning towards disapproval. I was willing to give it a chance to see how it works out, not that i had any say in it at all.
Now its almost a year since the colors have been removed. The effects are devastating and just ridiculous.
The ARPD is dwindling. our officer count has lowered substantially to the point where SFPD is almost staff less and LSPD inactive. You may be looking at our members list and saying that we have a lot of members. Yes, we have 19 but only 5 of them are truly active. "Its your job to motivate your Officers". With what? Promotions? Money? There is absolutely no difference between a Free cop and an Officer today. Official recognition in the eyes of the ARPD maybe, but in the eyes of a normal citizen we are all the same. Its a common misinterpretation that people judge others by who they are and not what they are.
If you are still lost on what im talking about, here is an example:
Jimmy wants to become an Officer today because he wants to be Official. He goes on duty and obtains a Silver badge with an Eagle and 5 feathers on it.
Jimmy becomes a Cadet and receives his badge which is still silver and with an eagle but with 1 more feather on the eagle giving him 6.
Jimmy becomes an Officer and receives a new badge which is silver with an eagle and 7 feathers on it as well as SMG.
Jimmy eventually becomes a Sergeant with a silver badge and 9 feathers on it.
Jimmy realizes that there is no distinct difference or improved responsibilities.
There is no difference between Free cop and Officer or even Senior Officer. I look at myself and then i look at a Freecop in game and i wonder, what has he done to deserve that badge. What has he done to have the same color, to be equal to me. The answer is nothing. "But colors caused freecop abuse" keep on thinking that. Yeah, i heard that the leaders got shitted on when they went on free cop duty. So did i. But did i give a shit? I wanted to strive for the best. I even had a gentlemen named Maladoi say to me that i should just give up. I kept going regardless and here i am today telling you what happened.
Im not going to say this nicely, the point of the colors was to make us equal. Unfortunately we are all treated like shit today. Everyone. Freecops, Officers, etc are all suffering because of this color change. I do my best to keep the ARPD at the best quality but i'll be honest, its hard. Very hard. A person in my position has very few chances to try and make a change. Abilities were stripped, this taken away, that changed. No more frisk, no more illegal weed. Our job is slowly being rendered useless except to engage suspects in gun fights, which is f**king ridiculous.
"Kirby if you don't like it, why are you still in the ARPD?" I've had a rough and bumpy career and the only thing that kept me going and still does is the possibility, even if its a slim one, that things can change and improve for the better. Today i am a Sergeant and Academy examiner and i look at free officers and there is a small difference. My experience has allowed me to gain these small abilities such as /cancelsuspect and forum abilities. This topic is coming from a person at the top of his career.
I've been asked by my department leader Vince to help recruit officers into LSPD because of our inactivity and i told him it was impossible. I tried to explain to him why but he didn't get the whole picture. This topic is the root cause of why i can't accomplish that goal and can only accomplish my other goal, which is Internal Affairs work with cop bans and punishments.
The respect is just gone. This video is just horrible disrespect and a prime example of why we need to change.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZXnS3xnYwA
The ability to be a cop on this server is a privilege, not a right, not a given and definitely not a part of Argonath you should abuse. We will take it away from you.
There is a solution, however. And im sure by now you have figured it out. Remove the free cops or bring back the colors, bring back our pride. If we can't do this then the department as a whole will dwindle apart and lose hope. Change for the better.
Sincerely,
Kirby
P.S I can explain the situation better in voice then through text. Come talk to me about it on team speak if you want.
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Kirby, I'm glad this has been addressed.
I could not agree more with you.
People say its only a color, but it impacts the SAPD alot, just look at it now.
There is not all that much to be gained from going fron Freecop to Cadet to Officer. Colored names were one thing that stood out, that gave you respect, that you are willing to work towards. I remember myself as a freecop thinking the same thing.
It would motivate Officers, It would interest new Cadets, and it would better the SAPD.
I hope this is really taken into consideration.
As Kirby said, Change for the better.
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Well said :app:
I remember those days. What glorious times. I remember first comming into Argonath and learning all about the cops. Whenever I saw a dark blue name, I knew it was someone that knew their shit. I remember getting Officer and being part of the well built police machine of the ARPD. I remember alot back then. Way before I was in SACS.
But, im a Freecop these days. Its still a great idea to bring back the original colors. Why were they changed anyway? It slipped my mind somewhere...
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I also remember it people treat me as a free cop nowadays due to the name colour cause they don't know i am an officer
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I don't care about colors, but you do have a point about the SAPD. But I wonder if that has to do with colors, or more with the new divisions.
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The activity sure has dwindled and many people have been promoted simply because there wasn't anyone else to fill the position. I am one of the prior who have dwindled because of studies but that isn't the point.
It's true though, our colours meant something, the colour of cyan represented a new player or someone who couldn't be bothered becoming an officer, most importantly it was a symbol of someone striving to become one of the dark blues like many other officers. Hell, because of my timezone I strived so hard to become an officer and now it's all gone.
I don't mind too much, I get it, the Chiefs wanted equality and this has been preached numerous times by many different people. We all say, our badge is a symbol of qualification, hardwork and determination. It isn't a product of time and although patience is a factor in the officer process, time should not be the determining factor in why we get our badges. Our colours represented someone who was willing to aquire the neccessary skills before becoming an officer or higher.
I'd just like to say, our ranks, they're losing meaning, it's becoming more of a competition of who can be someone elses better friend etc rather than displays of skill as an police officer and this is not targeted at anyone specific.
Moreover, that video is blatant disrespect towards someone who honestly wants whats best for the ARPD, the comment about SASD/ACSD being treated badly, I can't comment on that seeing as I was not around during the formation of SASD and my comments may be seen as biased due to my past association in SACS.
As Kirby said our RP roles are slowly fading, we try to differentiate from the usual gun fights and integrate into genuiene roleplay.
I've been around for a fairly long time, although my activity seems miniscule because of my timezone, I've tried my best to make any sort of impression upon the ARPD, because of my now exam period I cannot be active, but I sure as hell would like to be around right now and help hold the ARPD up with everything I've got.
Unlike Kirby, I've had a little less turbulent career, again this isn't targeted at anyone or aimed to praise myself. People, because of the lack of position have been promoted purely because the position had to be filled. It's another symbol that our ranks like or colours need to be formatted and restored to their previous nature or a new one at that.
I, have honestly tried my best to display my talents as an officer to no avail, my best achievements have been my medals and my now long gone dark blue symbol of acception.
To close this dreary extention or summarisation of my thoughts on Kirby's well said post, I'd like to say: I've tried my hardest to become what I've become, I don't have too much to show for it, but those who know me; know me well enough to know that I am good at what I do.
(Also in Australia we don't say over and out, over is said after every radio message but when you say over and out, you're saying broadcasting please reply and out. Not sure how it is in America)
Sushi
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They removed the dark blue color because it is harder to read on main chat. I don't even care about the colors, as long people cooperates together I'm happy.
:ps: If you have a youtube account, flag it please.
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They removed the dark blue color because it is harder to read on main chat. I don't even care about the colors, as long people cooperates together I'm happy.
:ps: If you have a youtube account, flag it please.
Done and done.
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as long people cooperates together I'm happy.
Wake up
They removed the dark blue color because it is harder to read on main chat.
Are you kidding me? You're telling me they couldn't just change it to a different shade of blue/purple? Changing it because it was "hard" to read is unrealistic.
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I miss those color differences
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I don't care about colors, but you do have a point about the SAPD. But I wonder if that has to do with colors, or more with the new divisions.\
The root is colors and /frisk. In combination with legalizing marijuana and ripping our jobs away to where we can only enforce traffic laws and catch suspected people, this is the outcome.
Even with /frisk we had no power to take anything. You find it on them, its up to them if they want to give it. Instead of bringing the same script back, alter it.
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This is really true, the reason we have SUCH low acitivty within the whole SAPD is there is no absolute interest to join SAPD nowadays, i remember wanting to become officer for the dark blue name and the ability to frisk..
80 percent of cops on duty at one time arent official SAPD members, As an Application Interview i ask alot of free officer's if they would like to join and they all answer in somewhat similar ways "I dont really care", they just see no point in gettin only 150 smg when they could just respawn and use deagle all the time and the hassle of not being regulated.
I am not asking frsik to be bought back, but the dark blue names should be brought back on a trail bases for maybe a month or so and see how things work out, i can almost certainly tell you right now alot of free officer's will be asking how to get dark blue names and they will try their best to join SAPD. I Highly recomend that thisi dea is looked at once more before jumping with "denied"
PS: Not only normal freecops dont care about join, but a once professional group (ACSD) who strived to join SAPD nowadays didnt really care because they saw no different from being a freecop or an officer
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I agree about this one, that most freecops are just like playing for "temporary" reasons, but there are a few of us who really want to get into the SAPD and rise above the "freecop" level. Maybe for Kirby the goal was the dark blue color but for us new freecops its the "Officer" rank and being associated with a department in SAPD to roleplay "properly" as a cop. There are few freecops who still take SAPD seriously :)
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Couldn't agree more, Kirby.
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I agree with this. It would make people more of a reason to work for.
But if I remember right, this was removed because said colors caused a lot of discrimination.
Admins said in this right?
If Officer colors were to be brought back, what would happen to the colors associated with Freecops? And the consequences brought about by said events?
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I agree, but I am 100% sure that the Chiefs will do nothing about it :cry:
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As much as people may oppose this, this is very true. Things have changed, because of this little difference.
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I remember first starting Argonath over a year and a half ago as a medic. It was really cool to see all the different colors on patrol in the city, working together. The basic human endevour is to be "better", to be on top. If we are all the same color "tag" then there is no reason for said freecops to really care. All they know is "hey free guns and I can't be suspected".
I encountered a freecop last night who showed that type of attitude. Remember when the colors was different, not only a symbol of hard work and determination, but respect and authority? I know to some people this may sound rediculous and others may agree, but to some officers, myself included, I looked at the dark blue tag the same way I look at the red admin tag, it means authority, knowledge, leadership. If i had an issue with an officer, I knew exactly where to go. It wasn't on practical but reliable, it brought people together, freecops could look at that color of you "badge" and know, "this guy knows what he is doing, I want to be like him" and they would contact you asking to be your patrol partner. Now you have to less-than-knowledgeable freecops patrolling in the same vehicle doing what they want.
I have also noticed, when I was a medic and I was on the scene of shootout or something of that sort, criminals gave up a little easier when they seen a cluster of dark blue names, they knew what they were dealing with. Now it's as if they treat all cops as if they are freecops, like we know nothing about what we are doing. I have been told many times by freecops how to "do my job properly" when they themselves had no idea what to do.
I understand and support the idea of equality, but that has to be to a point. Some of us are at the rank we are today because of hard work, dedication, working with others, and long hours on the computer. Is it fair to show someone such as myself, a Sergeant, equal to someone who doesn't care? I dont think so. It gives us a bad reputation. I think the color system was awesome, it was just like a badge system. You can see stripes on a uniform indicating whether or not someone is a high ranked officer, well, maybe the color can be our stripes?
Signed.
Frank Serin
DPD Sergeant
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The way Frank explained it, I have to agree with him.
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I looked at the dark blue tag the same way I look at the red admin tag, it means authority, knowledge, leadership. If i had an issue with an officer, I knew exactly where to go.
This is something really true, something that caught my eye, well said frank
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In this case... not the SAPD chiefs decide. The Owners, and the SAMP Developers decided to remove the colour difference... because the freecops were threated badly, and people refused to roleplay with them. The question is, did anything changed in this year with being "equal"?
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I have really seen no change in this color idea for "equality". Therefore I must agree on this.
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Freecops are still treate the same way, that hasn't nor will it ever change.
In a sense, were not equal. We put in time and dedication to make an appliction and pass the exam. Freecops have to do nothing more then type /duty. And now there is little to no difference in a Freecop and an Officer other then the fact that you are to take orders from command.
We used to be rewarded for spending that time in th application. Thing like the dark blue and frisk and smg.
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Agreed with most replies.
In this case... not the SAPD chiefs decide. The Owners, and the SAMP Developers decided to remove the colour difference... because the freecops were threated badly, and people refused to roleplay with them. The question is, did anything changed in this year with being "equal"?
In my opinion, no. There are many other ways to deal with disrespect towards freecops.. I honestly don't see anymore "equality", just less respect for all cops overall...
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I honestly don't see anymore "equality", just less respect for all cops overall...
Wise words, this is true.
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I do agree that we are quite limited to the usual boring gunfights. This needs to be changed, although I don't really care if we get colors or not. I just want to see this solved.
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In this case... not the SAPD chiefs decide. The Owners, and the SAMP Developers decided to remove the colour difference... because the freecops were threated badly, and people refused to roleplay with them. The question is, did anything changed in this year with being "equal"?
Im not going to say this nicely, the point of the colors was to make us equal. Unfortunately we are all treated like shit today.
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For the first time in my like I have to agree with Kirby. Although it's just a color it represents something. I remember when I was a SAPD applicant.. The color showed that you achieved something. And about the freecops being disrespected; it's not about the rank, it's about their way of roleplaying and since some of them are new, people start sh*tting on them just be cause they are new to roleplay and they need to learn from step one.
Freecops have no rules (besides server & cop rules) and SAPD has. Is THAT what makes a freecop (as some of you state it) a 'f*ing abuser n**b'? Yes there are people which abuse on the server but there are NO abusers and NO n**bs. Some of them abuse because they are new here! Just imagine this.. You registered on the server, you read the server rules, grab a car and ask in main chat 'How do I go on police duty?'. People refuse to answer or simply ignore you. After asking the same question a couple of times all over again some start moaning 'omfg stop spam'. Help them instead of moaning at them. Once they are on cop duty, most of the newbies have totally no idea what's legal and illegal here. They pull you over and issue you a ticket for $5000 due to speeding. You can choose between the following;
1) Pay the ticket, and keep roleplaying.
2) Say 'ZOMG'' in main chat and start moaning with caps on 'OMG THIS COP ISSUE ME TICKET 5K!!11!!11!ONEOENEOENOENE!1!!'
2b) Get suspected for failure to pay a citation and keep moaning in main chat ''OMG IM NOW SUSPECTED!!!!! ADMIN HELP ABUSE!!!''
3) Explain him that there's a limit for issuing tickets.
4) Shoot him in the face, flame and flip him off and drive off.
Just because they are new here it doesn't mean they are braindead. If you chose 2 or 4, then you may need to read the rules again. Just pay the ticket and keep roleplaying or tell him the regulations on ticketing instead which is the most smart option to choose. This way a newbie can turn into a successfull police officer, if YOU explain him what to do. If he abuses on purpose, there is a /report function for that. Use it for the love of god instead of moaning. Now don't tell me you can't imagine this, YOU were exactly the same when you started here. YOU didn't knew the laws and regulations on your first day.
How did YOU felt when you were being flamed at while being a newbie? Sucks doesn't it? So CHANGE your attitude and HELP newbies for the love of Sauron. ASSIST them and LEARN them how to roleplay and how to be a good cop. YES it takes some time, so what? Before you even know they'll apply for SAPD and maybe you'll see him as SAPD sergeant in about a year. The color wasn't responsible for that as I said. The problem is the rank 'freecop' at all and not some silly color. Almost all cops are treated like sh*t and some color doesn't change that.. In my opinion they'll should get reintroduced..
Think about it and wait before moaning.. Learn the guy instead of b*tching at him. Amen.
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When I was just starting off as a Freecop, I saw other Officers with Blue Names (I thought it was FBI with the Blue Names) now i know it was ARPD with it, I like Dark Blue :)
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Hopefully the owners will realize the impact of the change.
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I guess the whole thing about not forcing RP is a big determining factor in the colours and /frisk.
We've read that if you commit a crime you are to RP because since you have broken the RP law you have engaged in RP yourself. The problem was, some freeofficers were representing others at the same rank in a bad light and therefore people generalized the entire rank, which was uncalled for.
Our ranks though, are thinning, we are losing people regularly and as I stated before, we are running out of people qualified to fill their positions.
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Perhaps make a petition? (Poll) and present to the courts in a show of support?
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Perhaps make a petition? (Poll) and present to the courts in a show of support?
If anyone thought the "CLOSE SRU" poll was bad, just wait until they see this one... :devroll: (assuming a poll does happen)
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I never saw the "CLOSE SRU POLL" can someone link me up please? It makes me sad hearing it =[
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I agree with most peoples replies here. The colors aren't such a big thing, but what they meant, made it seem special. That small ounce of achievement, made, in changing of color as you progress, was a motivation, for a lot of officers.
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Perhaps make a petition? (Poll) and present to the courts in a show of support?
The civilians don't have a decision in the colors. They are for us, not them. Why give them a choice?
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Perhaps make a petition? (Poll) and present to the courts in a show of support?
The civilians don't have a decision in the colors. They are for us, not them. Why give them a choice?
Well, I think you are missing the point. You could show the results to anyone who you think would benefit the most, such as the Server owners or the chief, or through the courts as a last resort. It is just one way to gather a collective and quantitative argument to present your case. Of course you would do the poll in SAPD briefing so only Officers + can vote, and you could then show it to whoever.
Or are you expecting someone to read through this entire topic and counting how many people support? Make it simple for them :) make a poll!
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Poll or petition perhaps? Getting 'signatures' might be good, to see who supports it.
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Perhaps make a petition? (Poll) and present to the courts in a show of support?
The civilians don't have a decision in the colors. They are for us, not them. Why give them a choice?
Well, I think you are missing the point. You could show the results to anyone who you think would benefit the most, such as the Server owners or the chief, or through the courts as a last resort. It is just one way to gather a collective and quantitative argument to present your case. Of course you would do the poll in SAPD briefing so only Officers + can vote, and you could then show it to whoever.
Or are you expecting someone to read through this entire topic and counting how many people support? Make it simple for them :) make a poll!
This is a public forum posted in a public section, why can't it remain here?
It would save time and the moaning of helpless criminals looking to start a fight with the cops.
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A poll or signature type deal is useless in these situations anyway.
It should be that this is noticed as a problem and something should be done about it. The Owners, who of course have all say in anything, should come to common grounds that the police would like their colors back. It should be noticed that SAPD members are leaving and the organization is getting smaller. Its really an Ownership deal with this. Hopefully they can be convinced this would be for the best.
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I'm sure if we provided sufficient evidence and present it structured in a concise manner than perhaps they will consider returning colours or perhaps adapting a new system?
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I'm sure if we provided sufficient evidence and present it structured in a concise manner than perhaps they will consider returning colours or perhaps adapting a new system?
+1
If I were you, I'd make a case study. A comparison of the general sentiment towards Police before and after the Color change was implemented. You could also focus on the performance of the ARPD itself before and after it.
You could also get first-hand accounts from people on both sides. (Cops n Criminals alike)
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We'll make a poll here. Vote everyone. Save the ARPD.
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Current stand-point as of October 08th, 2010,
13;0
For the first time in the history of ever, I think we can all finally agree on something.
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For any High Command / Server Members I believe we need a higher yes count than 13 If we can get it up to like 20 - 30 we might have a shot.
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For any High Command / Server Members I believe we need a higher yes count than 13 If we can get it up to like 20 - 30 we might have a shot.
It's not about the amount, it's just to show that no one is against it.
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I love how when I said the exact same thing in a tl;dr version months ago, no one agreed.
Either way, well said.
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I do hope the command staff can agree with us on the changes and present it to the president's office, where he can see almost everyone in SAPD, former SAPD and basically majority ARPD agree on this.
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Owners doesnt wants dark-blue color, they want to stay the current system.
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Owners doesnt wants dark-blue color, they want to stay the current system.
I like how you speak for the owners. They can speak for themselves, you are not an owner.
And with the logical reasoning as to why the colors should be changed back, I don't see why not.
The name change has not done anything to contribute towards the stereotyping of freecops.
It will always stay the same, it will never leave.
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Okay.. i can't speak like a owner, but i can give you some quotations from scripters and owners.
It's light blue instead of dark blue because the darker blue is harder to read for some people against the dark background of the TAB player list
The current blue is the easiest to read
This is not even needed, it's just a colour
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=51703.msg695699#msg695699 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=51703.msg695699#msg695699)
The more equal I make this the less script involvement, and yes that is a good thing for the server...
There was a huge moan about the colour change as they moaners complained that they worked for the dark blue colour, well it got through on second attempt without the mass leaving that was threatened after first try.
Colours or weapons do not make you better than others, its what you actually do that does !
The lighter blue was chosen as its easier to see under all lightin conditions
The idea is that cops will ahve to earn their respect instead of geting it by some colour.
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...All quotes from the past, Minds can be easily changed over the course of time.
I'm not saying their minds will be changed, but now that every comment we have received has been a positive vote for this. except for the one No vote which I'm guessing is you.
Maybe it's a possibility, but no need to be a negative Nancy about everything posted, Wayne.
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Its easy for them to say because they have never been in this shit. They haven't been in this shit for a year.
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... disrespect towards freecops lowered in a unsignificant amount.. while the respect on SAPD went down.
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... disrespect towards freecops lowered in a unsignificant amount.. while the respect on SAPD went down.
Bullshit. Get out of my thread.
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... disrespect towards freecops lowered in a unsignificant amount.. while the respect on SAPD went down.
Are you kidding? It has not changed not one bit from what it used to be.
Hell, it may have even gotten worse.
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WOOOT iTS back!!!! Thanks CBF! :v: :gandalf: :v:
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See what we can do if we work together? Let's put these team skills in game and see what we can accomplish with OUR NEW COLORS!!@!@$
Let's see what happens...
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Don't f**k this up. Good luck. ;)