Argonath RPG Police Department
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: saberman on April 13, 2011, 18:17:02 pm
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Okay, I'd just like to clear one confusion up. Mostly when I investigate suspects, they ask for un-suspect because they self defense. But they had murdered some one. When I ask some guys, they reply killing is never classified as self-defense. Some answer it's allowed with pistol or something like that.
I'd like for you guys to discuss and then clearly confirm, is it allowed or not.
Come on, use /discuss...
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*The killing because of self-defence reason considered illegal. If the citizen doesn't feel guilty because its claimed self-defence, he/she must surrender to the police immediately and the officers will put the suspect under previous arrest (jail). The arrested person will have time to contact to his/her lawyer, and they can prepare courtcase to earn back the penalty when the judge adjucated Not guilty.
http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=1172.0 (http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=1172.0)
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The Person in Question can only be Self-defending him By a Pistol or a Self defence service weapon.
Not any Automatic weapons or SHotguns or Whatever
Only HANDPISTOLS CAN BE USED AS SELF DEFENCE,
If he did not use Handpistol he'll be Jailed
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Not any Automatic weapons or SHotguns or Whatever
Only HANDPISTOLS CAN BE USED AS SELF DEFENCE,
If he did not use Handpistol he'll be Jailed
That's what most of current Staff forget.
Good that you officially brought it up :)
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The Person in Question can only be Self-defending him By a Pistol or a Self defence service weapon.
Not any Automatic weapons or SHotguns or Whatever
Only HANDPISTOLS CAN BE USED AS SELF DEFENCE,
If he did not use Handpistol he'll be Jailed
Or fists, or lesser-lethal weapons that are less lethal than a handgun, such as a nightstick or bat.
Keep in mind, as well, that it only counts as self-defense UNTIL you become the aggressor yourself. For example, if someone attacks you and you attack back in self-defense, and they throw their hands up and say they give up, if you continue to attack, it's becomes assault and is no longer classified as self-defense.
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The Person in Question can only be Self-defending him By a Pistol or a Self defence service weapon.
Not any Automatic weapons or SHotguns or Whatever
Only HANDPISTOLS CAN BE USED AS SELF DEFENCE,
If he did not use Handpistol he'll be Jailed
Or fists, or lesser-lethal weapons that are less lethal than a handgun, such as a nightstick or bat.
Keep in mind, as well, that it only counts as self-defense UNTIL you become the aggressor yourself. For example, if someone attacks you and you attack back in self-defense, and they throw their hands up and say they give up, if you continue to attack, it's becomes assault and is no longer classified as self-defense.
On answer: Speaks for itself Hands-on force is also Self defence
On addidtional post: Good you said that also.
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I assume you're supposed to ask an Admin to find out what weapon was used to kill someone?
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I assume you're supposed to ask an Admin to find out what weapon was used to kill someone?
If they both give you different stories, you can.
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I assume you're supposed to ask an Admin to find out what weapon was used to kill someone?
If they both give you different stories, you can.
No you can't - that is not RP. Get witnesses etc. If no witnesses saw, then you do not really have anything to against their story, so you will have to believe them. Do not waste admin time with this please.
Of course you can also frisk and search for weapons, and if they are heavily armed, then that is enough reason.
Personally, if it is "self defense" I look out for their attitude rather than weapon used.
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Some people ask for unsuspect of suspects that have killed but used self defense. I just wanted to clear that mess up. I've even seen sergants unsuspecting for such cases.
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I assume you're supposed to ask an Admin to find out what weapon was used to kill someone?
If they both give you different stories, you can.
No you can't - that is not RP. Get witnesses etc. If no witnesses saw, then you do not really have anything to against their story, so you will have to believe them. Do not waste admin time with this please.
Of course you can also frisk and search for weapons, and if they are heavily armed, then that is enough reason.
Personally, if it is "self defense" I look out for their attitude rather than weapon used.
Excuse me, but there is no IC/OOC in Argo, so yes, you can ask Admins. There is no such rule against that, and I'm sure the server owners would agree with me if you can't get a clear enough story from anyone. Obviously, RP is not forced in Argo either, so you don't HAVE to do this, but you CAN, like I said previously.
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Self-defense ia a method tried by smart players who wish to get away with killing people.
If this happens here is my advice:
- Keep them in an investigation for at least 15 minutes so they will not start using it as fast way to get unsuspected.
- At the end tell them that their crima has been changed from murder to manslaughter, for which a 15 second jail time is awarded.
If they claim it was a DMer, then ask admins if they were getting reports or punished the person they killed.
Only unsuspect when the person was punished by admins.
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Excuse me, but there is no IC/OOC in Argo, so yes, you can ask Admins. There is no such rule against that, and I'm sure the server owners would agree with me if you can't get a clear enough story from anyone. Obviously, RP is not forced in Argo either, so you don't HAVE to do this, but you CAN, like I said previously.
I will rephrase. Please do not encourage players to waste admin time with such things. Admins not here to help you do police investigation.
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What is classified a Handgun?
A Desert Eagle is more powerful than an SMG
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What is classified a Handgun?
A Desert Eagle is more powerful than an SMG
Not true. It depends on how you use it. Desert Eagles are still part of the handgun category. SMG are not.
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What is classified a Handgun?
A Desert Eagle is more powerful than an SMG
Not true. It depends on how you use it. Desert Eagles are still part of the handgun category. SMG are not.
You do not see Desert Eagles really playing a part in typical Handgun scenarios, e.g., hip holster.
That is also why I support Deagles being more expensive, and being swapped for 9mm on the cops weapon loadout.
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You have only 1 way to check if its self defense or not. Ask to the victim what he did, or tried to did. Then if the victim was robbering the suspect, it was self defense. and you can procced with the unsu request.
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robbering
loled :D
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You have only 1 way to check if its self defense or not. Ask to the victim what he did, or tried to did. Then if the victim was robbering the suspect, it was self defense. and you can procced with the unsu request.
robbery is not the only one thing, sometimes victim won't say the truth ;P i had situation when i killed deathmatcher and got unsuspected, because i killed him in self defence.. i doubt he would admit he was trying to dm me ;)
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Yh, That is what iam saying. Basicly if a guy say, I was attacking him, kidnaping, robberying and many other forms, you can proced with the unsuspect request.
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Yh, That is what iam saying. Basicly if a guy say, I was attacking him, kidnaping, robberying and many other forms, you can proced with the unsuspect request.
Perhaps you should re-read my comment.
Self defense is a reason to lower jail time, not a reason to unsuspect.
There are two ways to get unsuspected when claiming self-defense.
1. Admin acknowledged it is killing a DMer
2. RPing a trial in courts.
In all other cases, it should just warrant a low jail time. Why ? They still admitted to killing.
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Yh, That is what iam saying. Basicly if a guy say, I was attacking him, kidnaping, robberying and many other forms, you can proced with the unsuspect request.
Perhaps you should re-read my comment.
Self defense is a reason to lower jail time, not a reason to unsuspect.
There are two ways to get unsuspected when claiming self-defense.
1. Admin acknowledged it is killing a DMer
2. RPing a trial in courts.
In all other cases, it should just warrant a low jail time. Why ? They still admitted to killing.
In normal law, the 3 points matter should be discussed.
1) If the threat was direct,
2) If the threat was serious,
3) If not taking the self-defence would lead to the crime.
If those 3 points are checked as "occured", then we can consider it as self defence.
Another important point, in regards to what Gandalf said is excess of the self-defense.
Without court its impossible to detect ingame, if the self defence was kept in boundries of it, or excessed.
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Yh, That is what iam saying. Basicly if a guy say, I was attacking him, kidnaping, robberying and many other forms, you can proced with the unsuspect request.
Perhaps you should re-read my comment.
Self defense is a reason to lower jail time, not a reason to unsuspect.
There are two ways to get unsuspected when claiming self-defense.
1. Admin acknowledged it is killing a DMer
2. RPing a trial in courts.
In all other cases, it should just warrant a low jail time. Why ? They still admitted to killing.
In normal law, the 3 points matter should be discussed.
1) If the threat was direct,
2) If the threat was serious,
3) If not taking the self-defence would lead to the crime.
If those 3 points are checked as "occured", then we can consider it as self defence.
Another important point, in regards to what Gandalf said is excess of the self-defense.
Without court its impossible to detect ingame, if the self defence was kept in boundries of it, or excessed.
With normal law I guess you mean real life law?
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yeah
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Yh, That is what iam saying. Basicly if a guy say, I was attacking him, kidnaping, robberying and many other forms, you can proced with the unsuspect request.
Perhaps you should re-read my comment.
Self defense is a reason to lower jail time, not a reason to unsuspect.
There are two ways to get unsuspected when claiming self-defense.
1. Admin acknowledged it is killing a DMer
2. RPing a trial in courts.
In all other cases, it should just warrant a low jail time. Why ? They still admitted to killing.
In normal law, the 3 points matter should be discussed.
1) If the threat was direct,
2) If the threat was serious,
3) If not taking the self-defence would lead to the crime.
If those 3 points are checked as "occured", then we can consider it as self defence.
Another important point, in regards to what Gandalf said is excess of the self-defense.
Without court its impossible to detect ingame, if the self defence was kept in boundries of it, or excessed.
In normal law the claim of self-defense would be to remove charges of murder.
The prosecutor would in a clear case lower the charges to manslaughter, which could still lead to jail time unles it was proven without a doubt that the attacker would have killed the attacked. Just being robbed is not a reason to kill an attacker if you have options to escape or let the attacker run away.
The punishment for manslaughter with circumstances would be a low jail time, not going out of jail without any criminal record.
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Exactly. There is a difference between self-defense and defending your property.
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In normal law the claim of self-defense would be to remove charges of murder.
The prosecutor would in a clear case lower the charges to manslaughter, which could still lead to jail time unles it was proven without a doubt that the attacker would have killed the attacked. Just being robbed is not a reason to kill an attacker if you have options to escape or let the attacker run away.
The punishment for manslaughter with circumstances would be a low jail time, not going out of jail without any criminal record.
Never disagreed, even I fully agree :)
The point of my post, was to show, that you can't exactly detect ingame if it was self-defence in boundries, or not.
If it was excessed - then its still a crime. If, for example, suspect's crime is shooting, or fist assault, but he did not kill anyone, and then he claims self defence.. That MIGHT be a good reason to cancelsuspect the crime. In my opinion.
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In normal law the claim of self-defense would be to remove charges of murder.
The prosecutor would in a clear case lower the charges to manslaughter, which could still lead to jail time unles it was proven without a doubt that the attacker would have killed the attacked. Just being robbed is not a reason to kill an attacker if you have options to escape or let the attacker run away.
The punishment for manslaughter with circumstances would be a low jail time, not going out of jail without any criminal record.
Never disagreed, even I fully agree :)
The point of my post, was to show, that you can't exactly detect ingame if it was self-defence in boundries, or not.
If it was excessed - then its still a crime. If, for example, suspect's crime is shooting, or fist assault, but he did not kill anyone, and then he claims self defence.. That MIGHT be a good reason to cancelsuspect the crime. In my opinion.
If he is suspected for such reason there is a very good chance he attacked an officer. In which case self-defense makes zero sense.
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In normal law the claim of self-defense would be to remove charges of murder.
The prosecutor would in a clear case lower the charges to manslaughter, which could still lead to jail time unles it was proven without a doubt that the attacker would have killed the attacked. Just being robbed is not a reason to kill an attacker if you have options to escape or let the attacker run away.
The punishment for manslaughter with circumstances would be a low jail time, not going out of jail without any criminal record.
Never disagreed, even I fully agree :)
The point of my post, was to show, that you can't exactly detect ingame if it was self-defence in boundries, or not.
If it was excessed - then its still a crime. If, for example, suspect's crime is shooting, or fist assault, but he did not kill anyone, and then he claims self defence.. That MIGHT be a good reason to cancelsuspect the crime. In my opinion.
If he is suspected for such reason there is a very good chance he attacked an officer. In which case self-defense makes zero sense.
Assault / Shooting crime doesn't mean itself - that he opened fire on officer. I personally suspect more often with such crimes, when I see civilian shooting another civilian, who is running away ;)
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The main point of the topic was to clear the confusion between officers of self-defense that most of the officers would unsuspect. This topic would clear that confusion and avoid such actions. The conclusions are that if it was self-defense you can change time low depending on what the situation was. Like 15-80 seconds or so. If the topic still has something to discuss then it may continue, if not. I request topic to be locked.
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I think it's the Cops fault that people resort to Defending themselves than calling 911.
I was attacked recently at my House near the LVPD HQ. I fought off two Men who tried to steal my Cheetah. They fled the scene when they lost too much health from my fists. Once they'd gone, I called 911 and gave them the Two Men and their Car. They were never caught.
Later in the Week, I was attacked again for the same reason because my Cheetah was locked. I fought him off too with my fists and he tried to flee aswell. I knew the Cops wouldn't come, and I didn't want him getting away. I drew my Gun and stood on my Cheetah and told him to Stop, but he rammed my Cheetah with me on it, so I shot and killed him.
I stayed in my House until the heat died down, because I knew surrendering and an investigation didn't look good as I had used a Gun in my Defence.
Purhaps some Public Service Announcements could help the community in what to do during an Attack.
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Attacking anyone is never to be unsuspected. Only time should be decreased. This should be spread and most of the SAPD officers don't have a clear knowledge of this.