SWAT - Special Weapons and Tactics [File 038/2A]

[Jaaskaa]

James, stop it, ur going the wrong way all the way. I didn't said it haven't be studied, but by your agressive answer it can definitely give me the following thoughts :
1- You cannot control yourself
2- You didn't understood my post
3- You didn't answered it, you went through some related event through which another force could come over.
4- You freely forwarded some alternative reality postulates

So I'll set the things clear :
1- The old swat had a VERY good leader, it wasn't some random guys going around with m4 and shooting randomly, they were part of ARPD, were well trained and the leader was a sergeant if i'm not too wrong or he was higher. They were planning useful strikes, not only maintaining the peace as you say at gas station number 9.

2-A code 30 doesn't require a Swat assistance, it require a few cops and that's it. If they are 30 people at gas station number 9 and you send a swat unit, all you get is a shootout, if you send a few squad cars and they work together as an anti-riot team, you can control any group easily.

3- Swat a rapid action deployment force ? You got to be kidding right ?! No seriously, the first people to arrive at a scene when something goes wrong, it's conventionnal cops. Swat are only firsts when it's a planned strike on a defined suspect. Usualy a swat unit, when needed, takes about 30 minutes in the US, 25-55 minutes in europe depending of the country, time of year, time of day and so on. So no, I don't see it as rapid.

4- How did you studied that `? Seriously ? Who said they had m4 ? Yourself, which show that you didn't studied alot of things. They were highly trained cops, they trained, of what some told me about 2 months ago, about 2 times a week, which is more than acceptable considering the limits of this, as being a videogame, and even real Swat train 2-4 days a week. In the army, we had the special security forces training two times a week, two hours, which mean 4 hours a week.

5- Blowing gas station isn't a crime, it's a rulebreaking on server, so if you see someone doing it, report it to us by doing /report id reason please, thanks

6- I don't know if you can manage it or not, I'm not answering to you, I'm answering to your arguments, but actualy if you get the job, then you should be promoted to captain, it's logic. But to be fully effective, you need someone with experience and leadership, which actuals captains do have and due to the fact that Swat doesn't require 100% of the time a cop spend on-duty, he still have time to manage his guys.

7- (And finaly) Due to actual server limitations, constant crashes, massive arrival of dmers, it would be hard to keep a fully fonctionnal team. Time will probably solve the question, but if you come with let say H&K and open fire on some suspects, then, they will come and more will come and all what will happen will be some dming (Domino theory) and hardcore dming. Swat, if created at this very moment, should try to strike mafias/criminal groups/drug dealers instead of people rioting. An anti-riot group is composed by regular cops and is often a massive group of cops, not a small elite commando who come with mp5 and tell : Ok guys we are swat, put your hands up or we blow your head (Extreme demonstration, do not take that last sentence seriously, but almost) ...

So if you want to maximize your chances, prepare a file, a really strong one, that will study the real necessity, the real objectives, reasons, theories and such. You must take in consideration that the server have it's limits, that the actual situation is not the one of the good old days where everyone knew each others and that there was some kind of roleplay going on, now the time is for alot of dming, and the old players swim through the massive dmers troops in order to find some roleplay and try to protect what they created ...

With all of this, we sincerly hope that you will achieve to find the real optic in which should SWAT evolve and that it will help you to bring some good ideas to SAPD and to the whole Argonath.

Good luck,
Best regard
Jaaskaa Kolta
F.B.I. Deputy Director (Including all related tasks)

[Emilio]

SWAT dosent always have M4 :S it depends on the squad leader who choose his squad Equipments depends on the mission itself and by the way i 100% agree with Jaaska and not because you played a SWAT game means you studied alot of things about and other thing A SWAT team consists of 5 Units (1 Leader 2 Units on element red and 2 Units on element Gold) .

And blowing a gas station is A BANNABLE OFFENCE and not just need to call SWAT For it .

And about calling SWAT for code 30 , every officer must do code 30 to get some backup unless he want to stay chasing the suspect for hours , all the SWAT units can do on Argonath is Hostage Situations and Protests so not because someone called backup we always send SWAT because they are for The high dangerous operations and you said it yourself "performing hostage rescue and/or armed intervention, preventing terrorist attacks, and Engaging heavily-armed criminals" .

And btw your introduction is copy and paste from Wikipedia :S .

[[RBC]Vu4eCa]

James, stop it, ur going the wrong way all the way. I didn't said it haven't be studied, but by your agressive answer it can definitely give me the following thoughts :
1- You cannot control yourself
2- You didn't understood my post
3- You didn't answered it, you went through some related event through which another force could come over.
4- You freely forwarded some alternative reality postulates

So I'll set the things clear :
1- The old swat had a VERY good leader, it wasn't some random guys going around with m4 and shooting randomly, they were part of ARPD, were well trained and the leader was a sergeant if i'm not too wrong or he was higher. They were planning useful strikes, not only maintaining the peace as you say at gas station number 9.

2-A code 30 doesn't require a Swat assistance, it require a few cops and that's it. If they are 30 people at gas station number 9 and you send a swat unit, all you get is a shootout, if you send a few squad cars and they work together as an anti-riot team, you can control any group easily.

3- Swat a rapid action deployment force ? You got to be kidding right ?! No seriously, the first people to arrive at a scene when something goes wrong, it's conventionnal cops. Swat are only firsts when it's a planned strike on a defined suspect. Usualy a swat unit, when needed, takes about 30 minutes in the US, 25-55 minutes in europe depending of the country, time of year, time of day and so on. So no, I don't see it as rapid.

4- How did you studied that `? Seriously ? Who said they had m4 ? Yourself, which show that you didn't studied alot of things. They were highly trained cops, they trained, of what some told me about 2 months ago, about 2 times a week, which is more than acceptable considering the limits of this, as being a videogame, and even real Swat train 2-4 days a week. In the army, we had the special security forces training two times a week, two hours, which mean 4 hours a week.

5- Blowing gas station isn't a crime, it's a rulebreaking on server, so if you see someone doing it, report it to us by doing /report id reason please, thanks

6- I don't know if you can manage it or not, I'm not answering to you, I'm answering to your arguments, but actualy if you get the job, then you should be promoted to captain, it's logic. But to be fully effective, you need someone with experience and leadership, which actuals captains do have and due to the fact that Swat doesn't require 100% of the time a cop spend on-duty, he still have time to manage his guys.

7- (And finaly) Due to actual server limitations, constant crashes, massive arrival of dmers, it would be hard to keep a fully fonctionnal team. Time will probably solve the question, but if you come with let say H&K and open fire on some suspects, then, they will come and more will come and all what will happen will be some dming (Domino theory) and hardcore dming. Swat, if created at this very moment, should try to strike mafias/criminal groups/drug dealers instead of people rioting. An anti-riot group is composed by regular cops and is often a massive group of cops, not a small elite commando who come with mp5 and tell : Ok guys we are swat, put your hands up or we blow your head (Extreme demonstration, do not take that last sentence seriously, but almost) ...

So if you want to maximize your chances, prepare a file, a really strong one, that will study the real necessity, the real objectives, reasons, theories and such. You must take in consideration that the server have it's limits, that the actual situation is not the one of the good old days where everyone knew each others and that there was some kind of roleplay going on, now the time is for alot of dming, and the old players swim through the massive dmers troops in order to find some roleplay and try to protect what they created ...

With all of this, we sincerly hope that you will achieve to find the real optic in which should SWAT evolve and that it will help you to bring some good ideas to SAPD and to the whole Argonath.

Good luck,
Best regard
Jaaskaa Kolta
F.B.I. Deputy Director (Including all related tasks)

   Pwnt ...

[[Rstar]CBFASI]

These are my ideas and ARE NOT offical

I personally would see SWAT as a team withing SAPD that has had specialist training that is only called upon when required, they would have access to various loadouts and would know what to pick for certain situations.  This team is effectively on call 24/7 but would NOT be expected actually patrol as swat 24/7 just as anormal officer.   This fits in with the nature of the server as there are not too many occasions when SWAT would actually be required and if required a senoir officer (likely Capts and above).  If no senoir officers present the highest rank SWAT would have to make a decision.

Access would be very hard and would from the best and by invitation only.

Much of the specialist training would reflect what has been mentioned before but would also go into methods of delivery.

How I would see the Argonath version
Special  Limited access, not a 'regular' unit, only for certain types of situations where normal police are not suited to handle
Weapons Access weapons that woudl otherwise make the job expensive, and that may not be available otherwise
And
Tactics All the different Trained methods of carry out to make handling of situations easier.

[[RBC]Vu4eCa]

  There is how I see the situation.
 
 1. If a SWAT team is created on Argonath (as I am sure it will be) as all of you say, it must have the best and the most skilled officers.
 
 2. The SAPD chiefs/ deputy chiefs and captains should choose who to be incharge of it. Someone who is skilled, responsible and able to handle a who team. It must be a very senior and exp. SAPD officer, who is in for a long time and knows how the criminals are acting and thinking, who knows the mafias and the crime activity. It must be someone who is well aweared of all the details in the police work and who knows the hot spots in SA.
 
 3. The recruitment, as CBF said, must be by invitation, only skilled people will recieve invitations from the chiefs.
 
  Here is some information about the IRL S.W.A.T teams:
 'The relative infrequency of SWAT call-outs means these expensively-trained and equipped officers cannot be left to sit around, waiting for an emergency. In many departments the officers are normally deployed to regular duties, but are available for SWAT calls via pagers, cell phones or radio transceivers. Even in the larger police agencies, SWAT personnel would normally be seen in crime suppression roles - specialized and more dangerous than regular patrol, perhaps, but the officers wouldn’t be carrying their distinctive armor and weapons.'
 
  and their duty:
 

• Protecting emergency personnel against snipers;
• Providing high-ground and perimeter security against snipers for visiting dignitaries; (can be RPed)
• Providing controlled assault firepower in certain non-riot situations, e.g., barricaded suspects;
• Rescuing officers and citizens captured or endangered by gunfire
• Neutralizing guerrilla or terrorist operations.
• Catching people that could be involved in undercover work.
• Resolve high-risk situations with a minimum loss of life, injury or property damage,
• Stabilize situations involving high-risk suicidal subjects,
• Provide assistance on drug raids, arrest warrants and search warrants,
• Provide additional security at special events

[[Rstar]CBFASI]

My knowledge was based on how I expected it to work, my only experiance of S.W.A.T. IRL is what you see on tv seems.  Glad to see the issue of them being in effect part -timers was right.

[James_Hunter]

None of my posts where meant to be aggressive, you can't put a tone of voice on text so I guess it's how you read the post. I'm taking into consideration the game mechanics, ofcourse the SWAT doesn't come equipped with an M4 Assault Rifle, that would be a good alternative for their weapons in game how ever. I have looked into the SWAT and attempted to adapt them into GTA:SA, think about the SWAT taking 20 - 30 minutes in game to arrive at a scene, that would be useless.

This was never a thread on who the SWAT are and how they perform in real life, but how they would perform in the server, I was attempting to give a basic idea of how things would fall together. But, not to seem rude - but the amount of times i've written a /report and they've not been answered, well, come to think of it, they've never been looked into, and I have had to keep a survallience of the Gas Station and attempt to calm things down myself, that was an example of an chaotic situation the SWAT could of been usefull in.

I hope you see my points now?

This thread was intended to simply show you some ideas, rather then the A to Z listing of what the SWAT would be about, how it would run, the problems, the solutions, the equipment, the teams, etc. If you want me to, I can write that up and we can move the view points onto that.
This thread was intended to display the hopes that you would give me the chance to prove myself and move onto doing that, perhaps I should of said that at the start. Hrm!

P.S - I was not implying every single code 30 means the SWAT get together, again, was an example. I should really start explaining myself more, lol.

[[RBC]Vu4eCa]

 About the report thing - that was reaaaally stupid. I am sorry, but do you know how much reports do admins recieve? Count - 25 players X 1 report each = MANY reports ...
 
 About the chance of leading the S.W.A.T - I just can't see you leading a S.W.A.T team, since I have to shout and PM you every time how you should stop ramming other officers and driving like a granny.
 
 Yes, you made this topic to say you can do it. Okay, you did it and people started discussing what they think about SWAT on GTA. Yes, there is nothing wrong in that. And about GTA S.W.A.T - The GTA Team should do the same things that the IRL teams do. They won't just go to the Gas Stations and start killing/ arresting people who blow it up - that is a simple stupid waste of time.

[James_Hunter]

What part don't you seem to get about example, Legend? And who said about going into the gas station and killing/arresting everonye? Also why is it stupid if i'm replying to you and what happens? I am aware of the amount of reports admins probably get, which is why i've given up reporting incidents. You constantly PM and shout at me? Sorry but, are you seeing double? You've only ever shouted at me once for attempting to grab a suspect that was near-by, I lagged and ran you over, also - driving like a granny, that doesn't make any sense at all and it's also a generalisation, if your going to make a reply please try and format it so that;

A) I can understand what your talking about
B) It doesn't involve insults

[[RBC]Vu4eCa]

Gas Station 9 - you will need a trained unit to disperse the civilians and restore order to that area when there are multiple suspects and the gas station is repeteadly being blown up.

You don't remeber what u said ? And also - insulting ? I am not insulting you in any way, I am just saying that you should improve your cop RP a little, you are doing good, exept for the moment that you are ramming other officers and driving reckless from time to time ...

[Rasengan[-HanieL-]Akai]

These are my ideas and ARE NOT offical

I personally would see SWAT as a team withing SAPD that has had specialist training that is only called upon when required, they would have access to various loadouts and would know what to pick for certain situations.  This team is effectively on call 24/7 but would NOT be expected actually patrol as swat 24/7 just as anormal officer.   This fits in with the nature of the server as there are not too many occasions when SWAT would actually be required and if required a senoir officer (likely Capts and above).  If no senoir officers present the highest rank SWAT would have to make a decision.

Access would be very hard and would from the best and by invitation only.

Much of the specialist training would reflect what has been mentioned before but would also go into methods of delivery.

How I would see the Argonath version
Special  Limited access, not a 'regular' unit, only for certain types of situations where normal police are not suited to handle
Weapons Access weapons that woudl otherwise make the job expensive, and that may not be available otherwise
And
Tactics All the different Trained methods of carry out to make handling of situations easier.

I agree, also I would like to see someone choose quockly (1-3 mins) the SWAT team needed to do the job,maybe all awesome/great cops will do the mission that is needed,all that matters is the mission,and the SWAT members that are doing it,so the mission will matter the most,not really formations,altough it would come in handy for groups of suspects all organized,but thats the FBIs job to tkae care of organized crime,so we will see in the future :/

[James_Hunter]

I seemingly think I need to quote myself over and over with an 'example' of how the SWAT could be used. Time to time - again, I don't drive reckless at all, infact I take a lot of time to obide traffic lights, qeue up behind others, drive within a speed limit and take care of avoiding other officers, sorry but it sounds as if your looking for an exscuse, I do not time to time have little spats where I decide to break the law and codes of conduct, otherwise I wouldn't be enforcing it.

[Jaaskaa]

About admin work : We get a load of reports, we get a load of people to check and before banning soneome, you must have a really good evidence, a report don't stand, so we usualy need to spectate alot to make sure : It's not lag, bug or mistake ... In no way should cops RP should be involved in enforcing server rules, it should only be applied to server rp laws. I understand that you might have given situation at GS9 because it's very common and easy as example. But rulebreaking that are warnable,kickable and bannable are not cops jobs. If it was, the only cops on server would be some admins.

Now about the tone on which you write your messages : My fellow and I all agree that you use a very agressive tone like you were offended by everyone answering you.

About anything else : Just look to what people think .... CBF added a very interesting thing and what he wrote is actualy one of the most ''official'' definition of what is SWAT.

About the teams : A Swat team, in different counties in us and in different countries in the world work differently. In France, they assault in wave of 15 whilst in Finland it can vary from 3 to 9 (We never get situations that require large group, except for music show and such but usualy it's regular police deployed.) so this can be adjusted to requirement and availability.

Finaly Haniel, FBI job is wider, we also have to check over SAPD, internal investigation, public security (Not cop job though), catch cop killers/assaulters and such. We also, in a close future, want to improve our cooperation with the swat unit. I could add alot of things, but i'm not allowed sorry, secret, zip...

All I have to tell you ladies and gents is : wait until next script, actualy I think that this is the wisest thing to do, so you can see what SWAT will or won't have.

[James_Hunter]

Like I said, you can't put a tone of voice on text, it's how you inturperate it. But, I guess it ends here, so we will wait I suppose!

[Rasengan[-HanieL-]Akai]

Yes it ends here until the script changes and time will tell (or the Admin guy comes)

http://z9.invisionfree.com/ADlaDForums/index.php?showforum=4

oops i have seemed to have posted my clans forums (its personal stuff,dont click)

[Lionel Valdes]

?

Unofficial warn for bumping old topics for no reason..

[GiacJr]

why you bumped it?...
locked