[SA] Over-complicated and unessecary bullshit.

[Joseph_Allen]

Get the hell out of here moaner, seriously. Codes are part of the police, just like in IRL.
  Deagle is the best weapon, and beats combat shotgun big time.

I may beg to differ, but maybe that's just because I can't DM to save my own life.

 
  As for shooting and lag. I don't shoot much, I have guns to look scary and give to other cops who are better at shooting. In close combat I will use a sword (none of that pepperdeodorant) and if i think im gonna get killed I run away and drink some whiskey. I try go after the criminals that are more likely to pay a fine or go to jail

Srsly? You can't shoot? Same here, I'm thinking of using a M4 on duty so I don't have to get near them.

Code's make things easier on everyone who knows them. Sure, it can be a pain in the ass to learn them, tough shit.
But you cannot tell me that you cannot remember a few basic codes just to get the point across in the radio.

You can choose not to learn them, or you can just write them down like some people do. I only know the most utilized ones (10-20, 10-4, 10-0, C4, that kind of stuff), you don't have to memorize the whole damn thing.

First of all if you can't beat someone with a deagle even over 100 ping you f**king fail at shooting.  Deagle is the best weapon in GTA SA it can defeat anyone.  Even 300+ ping people I've done and so have many others.  It takes time to master it completely. 

Third: I agree with you actually on this of how criminals think its a huge honor killing cops.

@ First: I'm hurt by that you know XD. Seriously, it's hard for me to lagshoot w/ a gun having a slow ROF. I'd rather use a M4 or MP5. (Higher ROF = More chances of hitting. BTW my ping is +300 on a good day) Am I doing something wrong then?

@ Third: I see what you mean. -_-'

I do agree with your view at criminals nowadays, they just come in to rambo you,
scream on mainchat how much cop killing spree they got, cop hunting all the time.
also they just rush in with the lame noob guns(the shotguns). This I agree on, Especially the automatic one who got 7 slots. Should be removed. It's such an lame weapon. Covers an wide range, fast amount of fire and kills on 2 shots... removing shotguns would be great, you will get shoot-outs and all.
instead of rambo cops and criminals

I agree. Even if we use cover, they negate it with their rush tactics.

[JayL]

Yeah, Maybe we should just get rid of our codes, then we can call for help like this:
"Officer in Danger in Idlewood, be advised that we have multiple heavy armed suspects, might be heavy gang related activity" while in comat.

And while were at it lets remove police laws and proceedures and such, all because one player has a problem ajusting.

Indeed, wonderful idea, sir.

Lol'd. You know I like you Boozman, but rofl.

Pinned down cop: /r need backup (or /bu, which has existed for a long time in VCMP server and proved to be very useful)
*catches the attention of other cops*
Other cops: /area pinned down cop
*Cops track the gunfight down and help the pinned down officer*

As Jcstodds would say, it's purely common sense.

Only someone who thinks they are playing as Argonath Sheriffs County Office State Police Department Trooper Highway Patrol or Argonath Police City of Department State Agency or any of those wannabe RL American Police groups would type such long messages.

[JDC]

I would have to agree with Gird3r and Cane. Believe it or not, I know as much about the codes as any freecop does because I did not want to take the time to memorize them.

Do not take my post as moaning as it is not.

[Travis Colt]

Jcs's view on all roleplay situations are an insperation for everyone. Some here should take note of his words and learn from them.

Glad i was in ALS when he ran it.

[Fabio]

Get the hell out of here moaner, seriously.

Your calling Gird3r a moaner? Anyone who thinks this needs to open their eyes and understand why so many veterans are comparing the old times to the new times, its a attempt to fix the problems that Argonath is haunted by. Seriously nowadays its a struggle to even go ingame and enjoy yourself, as soon as your in someone has to disturb the harmony. And to counter anyone who will write below me that "if you don't like it, leave", the principal is not to change Argonath into something else, its to change it back to what it was.

Funny how the people who actually start most of the bullshit moaning in the past are the ones nowadays trying to get people to stop it.

[Mac_Cabrazi]

Fabio, we all tried.. but we could not change SAPD.

SAPD will never change.

The quote by Jerome is a proof.

look what happened!

man you used to be cool but now your saying shit about SAPD and f**king with SWAT and stuff wtf dude.  I lost all my respect for you

[Gird3r]

Your calling Gird3r a moaner? Anyone who thinks this needs to open their eyes and understand why so many veterans are comparing the old times to the new times, its a attempt to fix the problems that Argonath is haunted by. Seriously nowadays its a struggle to even go ingame and enjoy yourself, as soon as your in someone has to disturb the harmony. And to counter anyone who will write below me that "if you don't like it, leave", the principal is not to change Argonath into something else, its to change it back to what it was.

Funny how the people who actually start most of the bullshit moaning in the past are the ones nowadays trying to get people to stop it.

You took the words right out of my mouth.  

Yes, we veterans have serious problems with understanding how most of the new generation (after SA:MP opened) thinks.

It's more about the Real-life RPG than it's about the common imagnitation and fun.

Sure, an bit of IRL roleplay dosen't hurt, but when you start introducing inoffical rules, introducing forced rp. Hell, even the Metagame term (or whatever the f**k that alien term means... it just ruins the ground we built up.

What we MTA:VC players moaned in the past days was not about having enough scripts and animations etc. We was waiting for an more stabile client, an client that never came from the official mta:vc developers. Having scripts and animations etc etc is just icing on the cake. The imagnitation and creativity of the rp is what counts, not some f**king brackets.

We did not have any problems at all, sure playercount in the server does count for the amount of moaning. But since argonath has on avarage 90 players ingame on sa:mp, it's really about 58 more people. Does that warrant all the bs that I see? NO.

Time after time I see players such as KrIbaH coming around, cop-hunting and deathmatching. There's no RP in it, nothing at all. Why is punks not like him banned? Had he come in the mta:vc in 2007 and done that to us... you could pretty much expect an ban incoming very soon.

SA:MP seems to tolerate forced rp, gangs running around deathmatching and using excuses like (lol we are just rp).

We did not need to kill eachother 24/7 to rp. And if there ever was an rp situation going on that had some dm element to it, the "situation" was under heavy duty guard by admins, to prevent unessecary rulebreaking. We had an zero-tolerance policy against anyform of gang dm rp. You basically had to ask the admins first if someone could watch over the event, and even then you could get kicked if you wen't overboard.

But as I said before, this seems perfectly fine on SA:MP, this is why cophunting, gangs running around shooting everything they see etc happens. It's because the SA:MP players accept this fact, and therefor the admins has gone into an corner.

It's like raising an child, give the child to much and they become little shitty punks with bad attidude and "I WANT MORE"!

This behaviour should have been stopped right at the start of the SA:MP server, but admins watched on and did only do something against the heavy offences. Nothing about the small deathmatching that kept adding up.

Argonath RPG, not Argonath Deathmatching + RPG.

EDIT:

man you used to be cool but now your saying shit about SAPD and f**king with SWAT and stuff wtf dude.  I lost all my respect for you

Dude wtf.
Do you have any idea what Argonath RPG was built for?

It was not to enforce IRL rp. Want complete IRL rp go somewhere else.

Imagnitation, Fun, be whatever the f**k you want at any moment (except DM ofc).

It was not built for players who want to imitate IRL to 100%.

"just like in IRL"

Jerome, more forced rp flavour on the drink of yours?

[Wayne]

man you used to be cool but now your saying shit about SAPD and f**king with SWAT and stuff wtf dude.  I lost all my respect for you

I wasn't f**king with SWAT, i was towing cars that were illegally parked





You guys play this game like IRL... wow.

[Gird3r]

Oh yhea. Another more "gentler" reason from me as to why the codes are shit.

Let's do some more forced rp here guys:

Real cops do not type "XXX code las santos XXX that over".

They speak it on an real radio channel with voice.

You have an suspect. You crash yours and suspects car. He whips out an spaz (I will actualy love it if that f**king shotgun get's removed).

You have only time to type one message before you have to start defending yourself.

Do you type: Code 30 in Los Santos, Glen Park Code 3
Or do you type: Backupp, Los santos, glen park. Hurry.

The IRL wannabe cops will ofc type something like the above message.
The ones like me will probaly type the message below.

Now, let's compare.

How many cops are aware of the codes, and can instantly know what they mean?
No-one, even your beloved chief has an "cheat" paper for the codes (Nothing against you Hank_Rafferty, I completly changed my opinion about you to the better, but I want to show what I mean).

"But comon you atleast know the basic codes huh"?

Not everyone does or have ever heard about them before.

I'd rather have 20 cops instantly know what I mean and need, than having 5 cops who know what the codes are that knows what I mean and need.

Seriosly, there's such an bigger chance that you get Backupp if you say "I need backupp" than saying "Code 30", because more people know what Backupp means and not what Code 30 means.

See what I mean with this.

Also, the system is flawed because in IRL, it's expected that every single cop know about every single code. You can't really expect all cops to instantly know what you mean in sa:mp. Seriosly cops in sa:mp is dying because they are foolish enough to use cryptic codes than just saying the plain simple: I need backupp at that place.

Sure keep the codes. Type your Code 30 here and there. But do not complain when you do not get the aid you requested (and if you get aid from 1-5 cops that's great, but once again the majority of cops have no f**king idea what's going on with those codes).

And another flaw, in IRL, an shootout will usually consist of cops and robbers doing something akin to an earthgrave like if it was an mini-war. (In this case hiding behind cars and taking potshots, since it's unsual that an robber will walk onto the range of fire and go rambo).
Ingame, suspects will usually go rambo with the spaz and rape your asses while you are typing Code 30. Make use of the time you got before the suspects reaches your hiding place and type something pretty much all players understand....

[JDC]

Make use of the time you got before the suspects reaches your hiding place and type something pretty much all players understand....

"HELP AT GLEN PARK FAST" worked for me so far.

So far I will agree with Gird3r's posts... again.

[Joseph_Allen]

Make use of the time you got before the suspects reaches your hiding place and type something pretty much all players understand....

"HELP AT GLEN PARK FAST" worked for me so far.

So far I will agree with Gird3r's posts... again.

Same here. Those guys are a pain in the neck to shoot at, they don't even respect cover.

[Panda]

Half of the OP consists of valid points regarding the ridiculous amount of pointless codes.
The other half consists entirely of cop tears and moaning. Seriously, if you can't even do the easiest job in the entire server.. man, what the hell. The deagle is the best gun in the game, and if you can't face a combat shotty with it then you're doing it wrong. Similarly, if you can't type "/su 10 shoot" (which, by the way, takes about 1.5 seconds to type) before firing back, you are also doing it wrong.

If the same points were made in reverse then it would get instantly locked for "moaning against cops".
You can't have it both ways.

[RockStracci]

Hate to say but Girder's pretty much right here...

I also miss the old 2006/2007 days.... VC:MP and MTA:VC days... Maybe I was not here the time MTA:VC Argonath was active, but cause I had played the game that time... even thought in not a much RP server, but that does not matter... I don't like the way SA:MP's Police work nowdays either... As they also said, for freecops it's like Chinese.. "WTF DOES THIS CODE MEAN!!?!?!!!"

Jerome... Shame on you, saying Girder to go away.. He's one of the true veterans.... Main Admin and old Community Leader... you even knew that? I bet no.

Some people ZOMG RP Latelly, thinking that if they do even one mistake, others will make fun of them... and yes, I've made mistakes during RP, and people went Ironically making fun of me, cause of mixing words, when their self can't see when a comment is meant for roleplay or off the roleplay without Tags >> (( )) <<...

Yes, I used to be a user of this OOC/IC thing.. but hell.. We don't need this, neither we need the ZOMG RPers... Or the people who try to turn Argonath RPG to Argonath ZOMGRPG! If you want to serious roleplay, go to other server where people accept it.. I don't need to name which one... But here NO... It's Argonath RPG... It's unique, and we play with the way we like... I'm sick of people moaning for a small amount of money when they have tons... people who try to ruin this land...

I can imagine.. If Argonath RPG was ever shut down, all people would go.. "CRY CRY CRY..." If you ever find another server, with SUCH !! Freedom.. NOT! Many rules... NOT Tough admins... (Looking at a opposite community, if you don't RP a little, you go to an jail for real time... How lame.) It's free server.. You do NOT pay to play here, you do not play here for nothing...

I can't see more people trying to come here and ruin this... Thing otherwise... Enjoy what you have.. rather moan or ask for more.....!!

People play for the stats on SAMP now.. They think like this: MORE BIZZ/STATS = More Famous = MORE $$$ = More FRIENDS!! No no no... This is a game, not real life... You should play for fun, and do not care if you loose money or gain.. In fact, if you ever realize it.. Even if you're rich here, it has nothign to do with real life.. You can't magically move the money out of the game to your real life... Enjoy the game.. and not the stats people... Have fun with people And well.. all people deserve a roleplay.. I keep seeing people going "CAN AN HIGH RANKED / EXPERIENCE COP COME TO LSPD!! THIS FREECOP IS NOOB AT INVESTIGATION" What the f**k?? He's a human too. He's surely playing the game for fun.. So why not give him the ability to roleplay also? Why does it f**king matter what his rank is? I'm also a freecop so what? People should not be closed to them selfs, and only RP with old people.. but should also be open.. Roleplay with everyone.. because everyone is worth it.

[Gird3r]

I'm an ex-admin and ex-community leader.

Also thanks for saying that. I feel honored.  

If anyone of you "ZOMG fu u gird3r" would take care to read Koltas and Fabio's replies, you would pretty much see why me and some other "veterans" complain and give opinions against some procedures of the SAPD/Argonath RPG players.

We did never ever use OOC/IC when we played back in the days. It did not exsist back then. Had you used it back then players would have shrugged it off as pure bullshit. Or something akin to "lol wut".

OOC/IC is an result of extremly real-life rpg servers and that features such as /L came into light (now I don't really hate /l because it has it's uses. But it did an indirect bump that led to OOC/IC talk).

I do not need players to OOC/IC with me, because I can spot an Roleplay situation pretty much just by looking at the message and the bodywork (animations etc) of the player. It tells me more than you guys think.

EDIT:

Once again I got an recent situation.

I'm growing weed. Two random players in an helicopter land nearby on the roof. Both take out an sniper each, fire away and kill me. I ask why they killed me.

"Ur an weed dealer and so am I, So i gotta kill you to protect my stash, it's just RP".

I see so many flaws here that it actually made me loose nearly all hope I had in sa:mp.

1: There are around 5 other weed locations in Argonath RPG sa:mp, randomly finding another player that's growing weed in one field, kill him and say rp?
2: There's no way in hell that killing = RP. Unless for rare cases (except cops fighting suspects or vice-versa (if cops shot suspect)).
3: He could have went to another weed field, seriosly there's around 5 more.
4: Awesome excuse to kill any players who are growing at an weed field because "I gotta protect my stash", good work. abuse the excuse since players accept it due to ZOMG RP.
5: We did once again not need to kill eachother on mta:vc to RP. So why do the same on sa:mp?
6: I was unarmed, had no weapon at all. I run around in circles to avoid being shot at.

These two guys are really f**king lucky that i'm not an admin on sa:mp. Or I would have kicked them both for this extremly retarded act. (I'm aware that they are regulars).

[JDC]

If they were veterans, I would have not hesitated to have them banned.

It is a good thing that in SA:MPFBI, one of our protocols is to not use "ZOMGRP" as an excuse for any misdeed... which is why any attempt by any complainant (regardless whether the complainant be a crime lord or an accomplished sergeant) to cover up their mistakes with the excuse "for the sake of [ZOMG] RP" would be treated as bullshit there.

To those who are contradicting Gird3r, remember that he has the experience and enough right to post what he just said... I may not be one of the oldest MTA:VC veterans, but I was around there long enough to see that what he is pointing out now in the present is true.

Btw, please refer to me as "JDC", not "Kolta".

[Gird3r]

If they were veterans, I would have not hesitated to have them banned.

It is a good thing that in SA:MPFBI, one of our protocols is to not use "ZOMGRP" as an excuse for any misdeed... which is why any attempt by any complainant (regardless whether the complainant be a crime lord or an accomplished sergeant) to cover up their mistakes with the excuse "for the sake of [ZOMG] RP" would be treated as bullshit there.

To those who are contradicting Gird3r, remember that he has the experience and enough right to post what he just said... I may not be one of the oldest MTA:VC veterans, but I was around there long enough to see that what he is pointing out now in the present is true.

Btw, please refer to me as "JDC", not "Kolta".

Fabio and Kolta explained it in an good way.

Sorry to have left you out JDC. <3 Accept an donut as token. 

[Joseph_Allen]

Half of the OP consists of valid points regarding the ridiculous amount of pointless codes.

Then can't we make codes optional? The other guys here are already higher up than me and they prefer not using the codes. Wouldn't that already solve the situation?

The other half consists entirely of cop tears and moaning. Seriously, if you can't even do the easiest job in the entire server.. man, what the hell. The deagle is the best gun in the game, and if you can't face a combat shotty with it then you're doing it wrong.

If that is so, can someone teach us how to do it right? I'm not like Daco or any of you guys in Araatus.

[Jcstodds]

  The SAPD training procedure is designed to help understand a somewhat realistic police force as a guideline for new cops to know what to do in certain situations.

  If you can roleplay, and do not want to use codes, or want to model your cop RP on something other than "realistic cop", then you don't have to, just prove you can communicate to other players in a understandable way.

  I will use myself as an example:
  I play as a drunken country Sheriff, I don't care/ regard any SAPD laws, I simply do what I think is right and just. This could involve executing serial offenders, dumping in the desert to die, deporting them to Mexico, letting murderers off with a fine... etc. I don't use codes, I bash the radio and shout obscenities in it now and then, and I respect the player not the rank. You will not see me saluting or being saluted.

  My point is, there is no right or wrong way to roleplay a cop, but you should develop your own RP character and do what YOU like. If that is being a corrupt cop, that's fine. If it's being a perfect rolemodel cop, that's fine too. It is the roleplay that you get out that you will find more enjoyable than if you went round being ROBOT COP talking in codes, living by SAPD guidelines and having no personality.

  So a quick way to improve your RP skill and gain rank and respect in SAPD? Find a cop character you like and base your RP on him. Personally I play my cop RP on stereotype of country redneck!

[Gird3r]

Half of the OP consists of valid points regarding the ridiculous amount of pointless codes.
The other half consists entirely of cop tears and moaning. Seriously, if you can't even do the easiest job in the entire server.. man, what the hell. The deagle is the best gun in the game, and if you can't face a combat shotty with it then you're doing it wrong. Similarly, if you can't type "/su 10 shoot" (which, by the way, takes about 1.5 seconds to type) before firing back, you are also doing it wrong.

If the same points were made in reverse then it would get instantly locked for "moaning against cops".
You can't have it both ways.

It would have been locked even before players would have get an chance to post, but seeing as it's not, I respect the fact that players/admins/SAPD insert high ranked want to discuss/argument it.

PandaLink, I know you love to argument/discuss, so let's bring some more onto the table.

The deagle is an very powerfull gun, that.. I have already agreed to and knew before I was going to post. But if you did read what I said, there's something called "lagging" on sa:mp. And unfortanly many players suffers from it. Causing you to try to learn and hopefully master something that's called "lagg" shooting.
Suddenly, the deagle did not become as powerfull as one assumed, do you really count it as aiming by aiming into thin air infront of them and hope thier/yours client and the server updated it in time so the bullets hit? And do not bring anything about "other games got such problems too" because this problem is very very obivious on sa:mp. That is why Deagle is inferior to the Combat shotgun. Bullet spread? ---- vs <::::::::
I'd lay my vote on the bullet spread. Of course, longer range deagle actually beats the combat shotgun, but then again. The more far away you are from the target the more likely that you are going to miss the shot.
And what suspect is so dumb that he runs in an straight line? Of course he will dodge and jump around. Making it even harder to hit.

And I agree with Joseph_Allens. Both of his points are very wise indeed. Escpecially the second one because that's what I was aiming for along other things by posting the topic.

Who said the cops work was the easiest on the server? Maybe if you are using deagle against unarmed players?

[Jcstodds]

Easiest job on server is being a hobo and dancing in front of LSPD for cash. Probably worst paying too though!