SAPD today - a rant

[Renz0]

FlameMan is right, that's what i wanted to point out. Unfortunately, i have another thinking style you don't understand, i will re-think it again and again.

@Plam: My FIRST application, posted in March 2011. - Look at mine Lessons resulats and the name of the lessons and meaning of it.


Instead og "we vill hav 4 nu officaz lets go hurry ok" re-think, add some questions for lessons for LOGIC, not only full shit of codes, as Flameman stated, print it out = passing.

Something with LOGIC, some tricks will test your ABILNESS to join PD.

[Ben]

Yeah, how it is now:
- Print off codes
- Write down exactly what the instructor says
- Use notes during exam
= pass

I printed codes in my officer exam too! 

[Julio.]

All theory is easy due to the fact they can be copied.

I'm saying it's easier as an observation of the people, not the system.

There are some officers around of quality so terrible, that to have passed there must be an issue.

[Huntsman]

Yeah, how it is now:
- Print off codes
- Write down exactly what the instructor says
- Use notes during exam
= pass

I printed codes in my officer exam too! 

Lol i have all them written down.. In my head ofc!  i can remember all of the codes

[Ben]

Yeah, how it is now:
- Print off codes
- Write down exactly what the instructor says
- Use notes during exam
= pass

I printed codes in my officer exam too! 

Lol i have all them written down.. In my head ofc!  i can remember all of the codes

I can remember them now...! 

[FlameMan]

You can remember everything, you can have all codes in your head and remember procedures word by word. But the point is - do you understand them?
Probably most of you will say: "ofc I do, I've learnt them and I understand what I've learnt". But to 90% of new officers, who passed through the new academy, I can prove in 5 minutes, that you do not.

[Ben]

You can remember everything, you can have all codes in your head and remember procedures word by word. But the point is - do you understand them?
Probably most of you will say: "ofc I do, I've learnt them and I understand what I've learnt". But to 90% of new officers, who passed through the new academy, I can prove in 5 minutes, that you do not.

I didn't understand everything when I first became an officer...just reeled off what I was taught! Experience made me what I am now...I don't remember the academy teaching me most of my cop RP 

[James_Hunter]

Due to the nature of my studies, I cannot stick to a schedule. I'd be forced to resign if there was a scheduled mandatory training every week, as I may not be able to attend.

Why on earth would you resign?

I would personally take great pleasure in acknowledging this 'mandatory training,' and take an even larger pleasure in not bothering to turn up.

I find it f**king hilarious how literal you took that imaginary draft post, not to mention your inability to think for a second that it could be changed to once a month so that people like you who can't structure their lives to fit in an hour a week somewhere have enough ample time so you don't feel like you actually have to work at being a police officer, and so your favoured TDM server still has your blue name when you next log in.

Can you give me some SMG ammo btw? I hear shooting orange dots running away with automatic weapons is good sport these days.

[Cane]

What's wrong with Caddies?

In my opinion, they go against the idea of 'professionalism' that everyone seems to crave these days.

I got my badge after three days and my final exam consisted of driving captain Flameman from point A to point B, saying what 10-4 means and shooting some posts near Fort Carson. Since I was seen to be doing a good job as a freecop, I was brought into the force extremely quickly and ended up doing a lot of work as soon as I received my badge.
The academy is supposed to weed out the sloths and train the unprepared, but what the academy has become is 'Wait 5 days to do a session, then wait 2 days to do another one'. If someone's ready to become an officer and is putting in excellent work, he shouldn't be forced to sit on his ass for days just so he can do a session an infant could do.

I remember my test consisting of driving Vince from Los Santos to Bone County then to Las Venturas, saying what codes mean and all, go through a 211 scenario at a casino, then shot posts near Fort Carson. It always makes me laugh at how f**king pathetic the so called "exams" are planned out now.

Due to the nature of my studies, I cannot stick to a schedule. I'd be forced to resign if there was a scheduled mandatory training every week, as I may not be able to attend.

Why on earth would you resign?

I would personally take great pleasure in acknowledging this 'mandatory training,' and take an even larger pleasure in not bothering to turn up.

I find it f**king hilarious how literal you took that imaginary draft post, not to mention your inability to think for a second that it could be changed to once a month so that people like you who can't structure their lives to fit in an hour a week somewhere have enough ample time so you don't feel like you actually have to work at being a police officer, and so your favoured TDM server still has your blue name when you next log in.

Can you give me some SMG ammo btw? I hear shooting orange dots running away with automatic weapons is good sport these days.

Hi James! Good to see that you're your usual self. (No sarcasm intended.)

[Chief J. Schappell]

Yeah, how it is now:
- Print off codes
- Write down exactly what the instructor says
- Use notes during exam
= pass

I printed codes in my officer exam too! 

I printed them, studied them, and then hid them away during my examination, just to prove to myself that I was ready for such a job. Flameman was my examiner as a SA:MP SAPD Captain at the time too. I even remember my Officer's exam with [R*]Lionz in MTA:VC. Did the same, exact thing with my code information, which helped me memorize them instead. I will never forget those days.

[[Rstar]Paul]

Yeah, how it is now:
- Print off codes
- Write down exactly what the instructor says
- Use notes during exam
= pass

I printed codes in my officer exam too! 

Don't tell me that's new... i did that with every session i got when i joined the Academy...  

But in the olden sessions, the academy send you the session review in full detail via forum pm.

[Nicholas Baker]

Due to the nature of my studies, I cannot stick to a schedule. I'd be forced to resign if there was a scheduled mandatory training every week, as I may not be able to attend.

Why on earth would you resign?

I would personally take great pleasure in acknowledging this 'mandatory training,' and take an even larger pleasure in not bothering to turn up.

I find it f**king hilarious how literal you took that imaginary draft post, not to mention your inability to think for a second that it could be changed to once a month so that people like you who can't structure their lives to fit in an hour a week somewhere have enough ample time so you don't feel like you actually have to work at being a police officer, and so your favoured TDM server still has your blue name when you next log in.

Can you give me some SMG ammo btw? I hear shooting orange dots running away with automatic weapons is good sport these days.

Exactly what it is. These days I have 2 Types of equipment: Combat, M4, Deagle and Modern Armour. < This is for when DMers are on their daily sprees.

If the DMers are out (Wich wont last long). Then I go for RP Equipment: 9mm, Pump Shotgun (Very rarely, Mostly I keep Combat on me), SMG or some Spare M4 (But dont use them) Me and Chris mostly try to interact with citizens and see if they are willing to RolePlay and so we get in a 1 Hour Roleplay, Which is more enjoyable than going pew pew on the streets shooting Suspects on NRG's and Infernuses

[Ben]

Due to the nature of my studies, I cannot stick to a schedule. I'd be forced to resign if there was a scheduled mandatory training every week, as I may not be able to attend.

Why on earth would you resign?

I would personally take great pleasure in acknowledging this 'mandatory training,' and take an even larger pleasure in not bothering to turn up.

I find it f**king hilarious how literal you took that imaginary draft post, not to mention your inability to think for a second that it could be changed to once a month so that people like you who can't structure their lives to fit in an hour a week somewhere have enough ample time so you don't feel like you actually have to work at being a police officer, and so your favoured TDM server still has your blue name when you next log in.

Can you give me some SMG ammo btw? I hear shooting orange dots running away with automatic weapons is good sport these days.

Don't lecture me, you childish fool.

Yeah, how it is now:
- Print off codes
- Write down exactly what the instructor says
- Use notes during exam
= pass

I printed codes in my officer exam too! 

Don't tell me that's new... i did that with every session i got when i joined the Academy...  

But in the olden sessions, the academy send you the session review in full detail via forum pm.

I graduated a few days after you babe<3

[GiacJr]

Oliver I have to admit that some of these points are true, yet you put it in a fully wrong way, instead of making a proper full with evidence and ect... statement, sending it to Pancher as you know he is fully experienced and capable to deal with it, you come here making well not whining, but close to it topic. If you see something wrong then contact straight the chief of police, after all he is the most experienced member of SAPD and the one capable to deal with this.

Here is the main problem with SAPD these days - none of the command staff wants anything to be public. Everything HAS to be behind closed doors, where there is no public scrutiny and no way for there to be any criticism. Wanna know my opinion of this?
f**k that.
This entire organisation NEEDS the public to see EVERYTHING to run effectively. If you wanna report a guy - everyone should see it. If you wanna rant about SAPD Command - everyone should be able to see it. Silencing and hiding people's views is effectively censorship and is NOT helping ANYTHING at ANY POINT.

Speeding when not reacting to a crime.
Reckless driving.
Driving on pavements (sidewalks).
Driving on wrong side of road without due cause.
Abuse of police siren when not required.
Obstructing traffic without cause.
Shooting standing still suspect
Driving a non marked vehicle
Exceeding weapon usage
Disgusting behaviour
... and more.

If you are guilty of such violation, you will be taken to the Chief's office and we will discuss it there RPly'd instead of the easy punishing way.

I'm sorry, but this is bullshit. You are playing a Grand Theft Auto game, not some bullshit racing game or something where you need to be serious. DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR? Honestly? You've got to be shitting me. Go to SA:MP General, look at Funny Chat Logs, and you will see that all of these things you have posted are traditional parts of this server and this police force. If you start getting people into trouble for these tiny little things then you will find a LOT of people finding it difficult to work in the boundaries of the SAPD, and leaving or simply going inactive...

One other thing is, lets just say all of you guys are imaginary SAPD Chiefs. How are you going to bring the 'old' days? I'm am not quite sure what 'old' days you are talking about. I don't even get how 'old' days relate to anything to the future. Because either way, our job is to serve and protect. Not just some 'old' days thing you guys were in with your friends and such. Because guess what, every single thing in life changes. Everything slightly changes for more interest and movement.

'Old days' ..........

Focus on the future, plans are welcomed.

If I was a SAPD Chief, I'd be overhauling the application process, reworking SWAT, removing all official sub-groups, actually ensuring that every department has the proper amount of command staff - who are actually properly fitted to the job (i'm not even going to bother naming names, but at least half of the command staff are under this sweeping statement), and making sure that every single unit feels as if they are an integral part of the team. Wanna know why DPD succeeded so much in 2007/8 and in 2009/10 when I was leading it? Because I was inclusive, I made the right decisions on promotions and I ensured that no sub-group gained too much power. Wanna know why SAPD was so desireable up until 2011? Because it was an exclusive force of highly trained invidiuals who worked perfectly in a team, led by well trained and appropriate leaders. All of the above, we are lacking today.

One other thing is, lets just say all of you guys are imaginary SAPD Chiefs. How are you going to bring the 'old' days? I'm am not quite sure what 'old' days you are talking about.

My fake re-work, documentation and announcement of the SAPD with this imaginary position in mind:-

San Andreas Police Department
To serve & protect.

"The rehabilitation of respect behind the department you serve, and the common goal of achieving a system that rewards team-work, tactics and initiative."

It has finally come to the attention of command, that our Officers have been empowered to the state where the national guard would consider the enforcement to be out of control, and a state of unannounced martial law has been effectively in place in our reign over the populace that we once stood up proud to assist and protect. Therefore from this monumental point onward, the SAPD will strive to condition itself for a better experience for both the players, and the officers.

I. The resource pool of the department.
II. The armoury and weaponry of the department.
III. The management of sub-divisions.
IV. Mandatory one-day-a-week training program.
V. Clear rank progression goals.
VI. The complete re-work of SWAT.


I. The resource pool of the department.

With effective immediately, the following management changes are to be made;

• The removal of "golf carts" from the SAPD garages.
• The removal of all but two buffalo high-speed pursuit vehicles at major SAPD headquarters.
• The policy of returning a squad-car to the garage after use, else fines will be issued.

The community needs the reassurances of squad-cars patrolling their roads, unmarked vehicles are not a deterrence and they encourage poor quality vehicle handling during multiple responding cars chasing down a suspect on the run.


II. The armoury and weaponry of the department.

The Wild West has had less shots fired then the State of Argonath, and therefore the following restrictions are now in place:-

• Unarmed suspects on the run cannot be fired upon, unless they have previously shot at the Officer.
• The command /weaponequip may only be used under approval of a Lieutenant or higher, and only at major scenes.
• The mismatched equipment that Officers have taken to wearing across the state should be checked in with a more senior officer, to see if you look presentable for the community (hats, vests, etc).

III. The management of sub-divisions.

Sub-divisions are still actively encouraged among the SAPD, how-ever private ranking systems can no longer be implemented, you must carry out the responsibilities you have been trained to undertake and not assume the mantle unless clearly ready to engage in such, with written permission from command staff. You must also present a monthly report to this public board to demonstrate that your group is providing the community with a boon, and that officers are being correctly taught under your watch.

Furthermore if you are called to purpose for regular duties away from your sub-division, you are first and foremost an SAPD officer and this always takes priority.


IV. Mandatory one-day-a-week training program.

As command has finally realized that we have such an abundance of staff eagerly ready to prove themselves, or find themselves in a more suitable position, the mandatory SAPD officer training and upkeep program has finally been realized and put to use, effective immediately, every Saturday evening at 6.00pm GMT!

• Community policing; handling the various ethnics of the population of San Andreas.
• Pursuits; rolling blockades in numbers when in a vehicle chase. (Be shown that you don't need a buffalo to do police work, get more pride from it).
• Escalation drills; when to react with aggression and when not to.
• First Response Units; find out what to do when you are all alone and first to a major situation.
• The '4 C's'; discover what it means to - clear, cordon, control, confirm, and just how effective this simple method is to tactical policing in any situation.
• Tactical Movement; gain insight to basic tactical movement during a shoot out or house clearence

This list will be updated over time and not all of it can be covered every training session, but areas will be focused upon instead - command staff can select what they think needs to be worked on, but everything needs to be covered at least once a month from each department.


V. Clear rank progression goals.

The commanding elements recognize our Officers desires to progress and show achievement, therefore the following stages have been implemented to show you just how to reach the rank of Senior Officer, and what to do if you want to move on further then that.

White Phase

1. Demonstrate basic road knowledge for your city.
2. Conduct radio communication through codes.
3. Display a continual outward respect to the community, even when it barks and bites at you.
4. Maintain good vehicle driving skills, be seen to keep to the limits.

Red Phase

1. Attend at least one month of training weekends, as talked about in IV.
2. Present the attitude of "exhaust all options" before engaging a suspect with a fire-arm. All life is to be protected. Innocent UNTIL proven guilty.
3. Demonstrate the willingness to work with a team, how-ever small, even if just for a blockade.
4. Consider the use of Teamspeak, even if just to listen to reports (optional).

Yellow Phase

1. Attend at least two months of training weekends, as talked about in IV.
2. Be seen to actively mentor new officers to the ways of the SAPD.
3. Demonstrate initiative and control blockades on your own, as shown during training.
4. Understand that all this is to your benefit, await to be approached regarding rank, do not seek it.

Blue Phase

1. Maintain the status you are now at, for you will soon be recognized as an asset to the SAPD.



VI. The complete re-work of SWAT.

Reworking SWAT in to a tactical response team, to encourage organized roleplayers crime and create a genuinely enjoyable situation for all, not a death squad that squawks insults and creates a clique. I'll leave it at that, to avoid flaming, and if you really want me to show you i'll put together a film to make it blindingly obvious - but just follow these guys around for a day and you'll see just how great they are ... at killing people.


I did that all in about 40min? I didn't even extensively research or apply trains of thought, you ask what the "old days" are? It's when people had nerve to actually be strong of character and enforce some sort of cohesive team throughout the police force, today it's really sad - and so when you hear the "old days"? That's what people are referring toward. P.S - a one month long application process? Oxford university replies quicker!

Sorry James but I am not gonna stand back and let you even so much as suggest - even if it is only a draft designed to show proof of concept - that we should be doing any of this bullshit robot RP shit. People should be promoted based on their skill and experience - NOT in some time schedule, and nobody should be forced to go to any kind of training - if you cannot make your units WANT to be trained, then what will forcing them to do it achieve? Nothing. If someone doesn't wanna do it, then they won't. This is a game. Nobody will be forced into doing anything like that. In fact, not only is this a game, it is a ROLEPLAY server, which means IMAGINATION, which means people will NOT stand for such bullshit schedules. If you want that, go to some RLRP server and become chief of their police, or maybe go to play some other game where you can be a 1337 cop with his super cop ideas.

If you are going to post such a comments, then at least get your facts straight.
I took the initiative to check this one, the fastest application took exactly... 1 month and 15 days.
Which I count as one month and half, as well it seems that you fully support what people have said and yet you unlike them say it should be longer, when your favourite commentators are saying it should be about the skills, not about the time. Now we all respect the criticism part, but lets not make up facts shall we ?

That is bullshit. One month and 15 days can NOT be the fastest applicant, and I highly doubt that you looked through 4-5 pages to check this fact. I suggest that someone else double checks this instead of blankly accepting Plam's suggestion.

It is easier indeed. My academy was based on practise + UNDERSTANDING the theory. It's not a problem to know all the codes. You can print a sheet of paper and you pass whole theory.
My exams were difficult to pass even with everything printed. Examiners that were taught by me knew that the point of whole exam is to prove whether candidate understands the law, procedures and codes.
In example, does he know what codes he could use to express "responding to the situation" (code 2, 3, 10-76)? Does he understand the difference between those codes? Does he understand situations and how to behave point by point? Currently officers dont know what to do if suspect is not moving in a car. They start to shoot. It was one of the examination questions, and the proper answer was only one - one officer keeps aiming at the vehicle, and second one drags suspect out of it. If candidate couldn't "catch a drift" I was asking helping questions, like "are you allowed to drag suspect out?" or if I wanted to trick him "are you allowed to carjack suspect in such situation?". It was really, really based on the understanding of the law.

And that was the theoretical part, consisting of three stages (Codes, rules/laws/procedures, situations).
Practical part was more complex:
1) Map knowledge (driving from point A to B, with additional checking knowledge of the basic codes), e.g. Code 3 to Montgomery, Code 2 to Playa del Seville, 10-76 to Las Barrancas, etc etc.
2) Fighting (nightstick fight at Fort Carson cinema)
3) Shooting (at Fort Carson cinema)
4) Driving (two stages: first checked during the map knowledge, if officer is following the traffic law, second - roleplayed chase with examiner)
5) Regular patrol with examiner

That's the difference.

You would be a fool to disagree with FlameMan. He was academy chief for a reason - he knew his shit. When I became academy chief, I stuck to his structure very closely because it was the best that the SAPD has ever had. Wanna know how I got into SAPD in 2007? I asked RON for a position and he made me DPD Captain. I didn't have to do any of this stuff, and I regret it. I was probably a terrible field officer back then - I specialised in forum work and organisation. Now, however, through five years of experience, I'm one of the best field officers this organisation has, as well as one of the most skilled and able. I blame this on my work with the academy and FlameMan's model. For it to properly work, you must work with your cadets and teach them by example. In doing so, I gained vital skills and knowledge as I was teaching the very things to the cadets.



I don't expect any change to come as a result of my post. As a matter of fact, I'm expecting it to be deleted or edited in some way. That wouldn't surprise me. In saying all of that, I do hope that I've made an impact on some people's opinions of this topic and this issue. It's of great importance to the SAPD. It IS possible to return back to the 'old days' - not the literal old days, but to return to the VALUES, PRACTICES and GOALS of the 'old days'. This is what we need most. This is what the SAPD needs to move forward. Without these old values embraced, we will go into an uncertain future full of unprofessionalism (I don't define professionalism by James Hunter's lines of Robot RP btw) and unfairness.
If I were to make recommendations right this moment on what to do:
Pancher, review all of your command staff. Check their achievements. Check their activity. Check their work with their men. If they have achieved very little meaningful things - fire them. If they are not active - fire them. If they think they are above their men, if they do not patrol with their men, and if they have little communication with their men - fire them.
Pancher, ask Nexxt to review the academy. Dig up mine and/or FlameMan's old systems and ask Nexxt to try and create a new academy based around those systems. Bring back the necessity of skills & knowledge to join the SAPD.
Pancher, give out strict instruction in regards to promotions. Ensure that people are not promoted based on ass licking and good relationships with command staff. (Nobody try to deny this btw, I was a witness to this throughout my five years). If you find any promotions that are along these lines, remove them back to Officer and make them work their way back up like everyone else does.
Pancher, remove all of the sub groups and re establish SWAT as a central, highly professional, highly skilled group that focussed on special response to highly dangerous situations such as 207s and bomb threats. I'm slightly removed from what is going on with sub-groups at the moment due to a bit of inactivity, but you will remember in 2008 when Vince shut down all sub groups, SAPD really took off and we were able to establish professionalism and fairness.

I could go on, but I need to go to sleep. I look forward to responding to all of your nasty remarks in 24 hours.

Regards,
GiacJr

[Nicholas Baker]

Ladies and Gentlemans, Dont look any further. We've found our perfect man.

 

[James_Hunter]

Ladies and Gentlemans, Dont look any further. We've found our perfect man.

 

Yeah! So much hot air we don't even need to pay the heating bill any more; the perfect man - for a warm house. GiacJr has never amounted any work beyond being a regular cop among the background, and just admitted to asking for a rank and being given something completely out of the blue, a prime example of the laughable achievement it takes to get rank around here.
Giac, your a good cop - but you're not a leader, and you don't understand the concept at all, it doesn't force people in to roles they wouldn't enjoy, in fact the only reason you spat at was the mention of mandatory training, take that away and you've not said diddly-squat about anything else going on there. Why do you think SAPD was so successful in the past? It had procedures in place, just like the ones that where wrote up, and god did those few rules go such a long way.

[GiacJr]

Ladies and Gentlemans, Dont look any further. We've found our perfect man.

 

Yeah! So much hot air we don't even need to pay the heating bill any more; the perfect man - for a warm house. GiacJr has never amounted any work beyond being a regular cop among the background, and just admitted to asking for a rank and being given something completely out of the blue, a prime example of the laughable achievement it takes to get rank around here.
Giac, your a good cop - but you're not a leader, and you don't understand the concept at all, it doesn't force people in to roles they wouldn't enjoy, in fact the only reason you spat at was the mention of mandatory training, take that away and you've not said diddly-squat about anything else going on there. Why do you think SAPD was so successful in the past? It had procedures in place, just like the ones that where wrote up, and god did those few rules go such a long way.

You wanna talk to me about leadership mr. Constantly ditching every role he's ever had, time and time again, without warning, to play other servers or other games, leaving his men in disarray?
You were never around when I was a leader so you can shove your bullshit assumptions up your ass and stop assuming that every time you return from one of your other games you will be able to resume to your usual power hungry self who is god reincarnated and can make the sapd oh so incredible. If you are still here in 2 months, talk to me.

[Swig]

I have to agreed with Giac on the "Report to Officer" thing, i just "FTW" with once i heard it from someone, some days ago..
Argonath has always been public regarding things like this, but the ARPD(SAPD Actually, its the only one) starts to hide and hide..

Do not close the public more and more out - open more up to them..

[James_Hunter]

GiacJr: "Incoherent babbling sentence amidst tears of frustration."

You mean the two years of sustained training, from the creation and founding of S.W.A.T to the implementation of its scripts and vehicles? Oh! Yeah! I remember that too. Do you mean the singular role of S.W.A.T Commander as a SAPD Captain? I don't count any additional roles, perhaps you should try counting on your fingers, because your numerical skills are wanting.

You also sound pretty butt hurt, Giac, I suppose the truth does hurt.

To also include:- I gave ample notice of departure*, and even trained others in aspects of leadership to take over from my role in my absence, I returned twice due to these people not being able to achieve the desired result - each time setting it back up again so that they could have another chance.

So that would mean S.W.A.T was founded (tactics demonstrated as the 'SRU' to Chiefs of Police, and server owners by very first SWAT team as regular officers to gain approval and SWAT models/skins), the rules and training set-up (creation of a sub-forum on this board, loads of threads), scripts where implemented (weapon equip, fast roping/winch system), including vehicles (raindance helicopters, riot tank, enforcers, command vehicle) and buildings (kill house, HQ with gates) and that was all maintained for two years along side dearly missed CBFasi, and then I came back several times after people requested me to put it back on track, all the while countless operations both as SWAT and regular SAPD commanding staff on the field. Just to drum that in to your angry teenager head - sorry, remind me what you've done again? I'll answer that for you ~ nothing, apart from hot air.


* - Just to underline this, that means warning was given well before taking leave.

[Chris Knight]

I have to agreed with Giac on the "Report to Officer" thing, i just "FTW" with once i heard it from someone, some days ago..
Argonath has always been public regarding things like this, but the ARPD(SAPD Actually, its the only one) starts to hide and hide..

Do not close the public more and more out - open more up to them..

So people can steal more out of SAPD(ARPD)