Bringing back old rules

[Joseph_Allen]

JcsTodds: (feel free to ignore)

• Use nothing but common sense...

... we need cops who think sensibly..

... so how about we COPS learn to use more common sense rather than having to have many many rules with LOTS of exceptions

  Feel free to use common sense and not ignore my advice 

This would have been the most effective rule in the whole of ARPD. If only people would learn to actually think. I recently had to rewrite a ticket for a suspect who got was asked to pay 200 Argobucks for simply stopping on the middle of a road just to talk to someone on the phone, for a space a couple of seconds -.-' . Then the Officer who wrote that ticket chased me and my partner, held me at gunpoint and demanded why I did it. [I re-wrote the ticket to 80, received the money and gave it to said Officer. Ask StatuZ.]

For me, in any institution, it's not the rules that are wrong, it's the people. Want to fix ARPD's problems, weed out the idiots first. [If you actually go with this idea, count me in. I must have blood...]

[tiderman]

We do not need rules to say do not shoot at unarmed, we need cops who think sensibly.. its the CRIMINALS that want this rule in....

I'm not saying we need the rule but if we don't want anyone shooting at unarmed criminals then we do need it. Because that is how many players are; no rules? Full throttle.

ban ban ban kick kick warn warn copban copban

this looks more like the cancelsuspect command, instead of punishing single individuals for the abuse they moved it to a new level, do you want to do the same with the police? like punishing everyone for minorities?

I don't really see what you're saying here but yeah... What?

[James Bowling]

Let me just say this, Stopping Progress is never a good idea.

[Wayne]

How about: Max ticket price: $100 for ARPD

[James Bowling]

How about: Max ticket price: $100 for ARPD

Hmmm... How about 600?

[[Rstar]CBFASI]

Let me just say this, Stopping Progress is never a good idea.

Please explain the comment and its relationship to this topic

[Wayne]

How about: Max ticket price: $100 for ARPD

Hmmm... How about 600?

Why $600? that sounds a bit moneyhungry.

[[Rstar]Vince]

Ticket prices do not need to be changed.. Hank did a fine job making them

[Jcstodds]

  Usually if crime is so minor it deserves a ticket I give them a warning. I only suggest to other cops to give tickets to settle disputes about who was right/ wrong (since usually I get cops and criminals who are both right) as tickets are a minor charge.

  Can't even remember the last time I gave a normal ticket, but I do remember acquiring $2000 for a ticket I gave to a murderer though. But that was because I was being lazy and couldn't be bothered to question them.

[[Rstar]Vince]

Big problem with all of this, and it will be rather clear


If we have RULES they then get used AGAINST US.

... and this used to happen lots before I removed some rules, and still happens...

We do not need rules to say do not shoot at unarmed, we need cops who think sensibly.. its the CRIMINALS that want this rule in....


Criminals use them rules to put us in situations to BREAK them, THEN the criminals bad girl and moan cos we broke our sacred rules..
Who wins... well its NOT SAPD or ARPD...

I am totally AGAINST rules, I dont mind guidelines, but these are GUIDELINES and are NOT strict, and thus criminals cannot use them against us so much.

Those of you who are both cops and criminals will know EXACTLY what I am talking about...

An example...

Hydra advised not to be used against persons on foot... so criminal who is in air hears someone state a hydra is airbourne, rather qucikly heads to ground knowing that the hydra should not shoot at them... (if facing me too late I treat if you been in air even if you now on foot your fair game!!!)
This one is not even a rule but criminals treat it as such and it leads to bad girling,

Criminals learn very very very well how to use our rules against us, so how about we COPS learn to use more common sense rather than having to have many many rules with LOTS of exceptions so we can do our job under the rather large number of various circumstances.

cb look at upper board for response!

[[Rstar]Vince]

Seeing as you all have so many ideas ( ) I'd appreciate if someone could make a list of all the ones you people have suggested, and make a post if you have a suggestion of something you'd like to see. (Of course, not one that someone already posted pwease)

I hope this helps;
Suggested so far:
Alan Demarest:

• No drive-bying on suspect's vehicle, unless it's faster than the Police Car.
• No heavy weapons against unarmed/lightly armed (handguns, melee weapons) suspects.

Tiderman:

• No drive-bying as a cop (None at all).
• No patrolling in civilian vehicles on duty.
• No other weapons used on duty than standard issued (Desert eagle, batton, pepperspray, shotgun. NO SMG!)

JcsTodds: (feel free to ignore)

• Use nothing but common sense...

Cesar Hernandez:

• No firearm usage against unarmed running suspect; run after him instead. You may only open fire once he gets in a car.

FlameMan:

• No firearm usage on running suspect. You may only open fire if he doesn't respond to your "Surrender" calls.

Corey Alterlis:

• No drive-bying against evading suspect. You may only drive-by when the offender has committed a serious offence (murder, rape, kidnap).

Thomas_C:

• No drive-bying on suspect's vehicle, unless it's faster than the Police Car. You may only drive-by when the evaders open fire from their vehicle.
• No heavy weapons against unarmed/lightly armed (handguns, melee weapons) suspects.
• No patrolling in civilian vehicles on duty.

Severus_Fawkes

• Cops are NOT allowed to buy ANYTHING other than the weaponry they already are issued when they go on duty such as; SMG, Deagle, Pepper spray. This would increase the need for other Law enforcement groups/sub groups. Such as for FBI and SWAT, this may also help decrease the amount of abuse with weaponry, such as killing still standing suspects etc. (So such as using M4 to kill a still standing suspect, which is 20-30 ft away). Using nothing but the weaponry you're issued on duty, with ability to buy MORE ammo for the weapons you're issued on duty, such as deagle, SMG. Command staff, FBI and SWAT would still have the power obviously, to equipt. This would increase the need for normal units to call back up for either of these groups to assist them with heavier weaponry, and in some situations, even issue armour. I would though, suggest letting cops buy armour. Since it costs 2,000 dollars, and it won't be used THAT frequently, Since it can be lowered easily.

Bumped for my reference, please update list if needed and repost.

[James Bowling]

Let me just say this, Stopping Progress is never a good idea.

Please explain the comment and its relationship to this topic

Basically we have progressed to the rules that we have today. I am saying that if we reverted back to the old rules Progress would be stopped and reverted. So therefore "Progression is the means to the future, Reversion is the way to the past"

[[Rstar]CBFASI]

btw

No drive-bying on suspect's vehicle, unless it's faster than the Police Car.

So I am in a police car, they is in a slower Roadtrain... I know who will win... and its not me if I am not allowed to shoot them, cos in ramming I will loose..

COMMON SENSE says disable the vehicle... I do not care if its faster or SLOWER, while they are in a vehicle they can go further and even possibly escape through return damage to the police chase vehicles.

[Oliver Daniels]

So I am in a police car, they is in a slower Roadtrain... I know who will win... and its not me if I am not allowed to shoot them, cos in ramming I will loose..

Pit the roadtrain with a lagram, step out of your vehicle and open fire with a deagle/smg.

[Thomas_Crof]

Updated!
Suggested so far:
Alan Demarest:

• No drive-bying on suspect's vehicle, unless it's faster than the Police Car.
• No heavy weapons against unarmed/lightly armed (handguns, melee weapons) suspects.

Tiderman:

• No drive-bying as a cop (None at all).
• No patrolling in civilian vehicles on duty.
• No other weapons used on duty than standard issued (Desert eagle, batton, pepperspray, shotgun. NO SMG!)

JcsTodds:

• Use nothing but common sense...

Cesar Hernandez:

• No firearm usage against unarmed running suspect; run after him instead. You may only open fire once he gets in a car.

FlameMan:

• No firearm usage on running suspect. You may only open fire if he doesn't respond to your "Surrender" calls.

Corey Alterlis:

• No drive-bying against evading suspect. You may only drive-by when the offender has committed a serious offence (murder, rape, kidnap).

Thomas_C:

• No drive-bying on suspect's vehicle, unless it's faster than the Police Car. You may only drive-by when the evaders open fire from their vehicle.
• No heavy weapons against unarmed/lightly armed (handguns, melee weapons) suspects.
• No patrolling in civilian vehicles on duty.
• No suspecting for speeding (or equal offence; ie. reckless driving). Pull them over instead. If they evade; suspect for evading, rather than for speeding.

Severus_Fawkes:

• Disallow officers to buy weapons (on duty), to increase the need for heavily armed units (SWAT).

So I am in a police car, they is in a slower Roadtrain... I know who will win... and its not me if I am not allowed to shoot them, cos in ramming I will loose..

Pit the roadtrain with a lagram, step out of your vehicle and open fire with a deagle/smg.

This. You as a chief should know

[tiderman]

btw

No drive-bying on suspect's vehicle, unless it's faster than the Police Car.

So I am in a police car, they is in a slower Roadtrain... I know who will win... and its not me if I am not allowed to shoot them, cos in ramming I will loose..

COMMON SENSE says disable the vehicle... I do not care if its faster or SLOWER, while they are in a vehicle they can go further and even possibly escape through return damage to the police chase vehicles.

What if the roadtrain has a tanker trailer hooked up?

[Dave]

btw

No drive-bying on suspect's vehicle, unless it's faster than the Police Car.

So I am in a police car, they is in a slower Roadtrain... I know who will win... and its not me if I am not allowed to shoot them, cos in ramming I will loose..

COMMON SENSE says disable the vehicle... I do not care if its faster or SLOWER, while they are in a vehicle they can go further and even possibly escape through return damage to the police chase vehicles.

What if the roadtrain has a tanker trailer hooked up?

Shoot and watch the fireworks.

[[Rstar]CBFASI]

btw SRU do NOT count as a heavy armed unit...

We can only consider SWAT as they are offical where as SRU is not.

As it is I shall see what government thinks...

[Ronnel]

First of all let me explain the reason behind the forming of SAPD and why we once decided to use colour coding.

When we were creating the SA:MP RS3 script the SAPD was often criticized for their behaviour. The higher officers told that this was due to new players creating a negative image. This led to the introduction of the darker colour, which was strongly opposed by Aragorn.
After some time the term "freecop" became a popular insult. We decided to check the situation on server undercover and noted that apart from a very small percentage the freecops were actually performing better in roleplay as regular officers, who felt themselves too high to cooperate, share or train. Also the freecops took a lot of heat from players who just denied any interaction with other than darker coloured cops.
This led to removing the colour coding and creating more equality.

SAPD has been formed to provide its units with a higher level of training and cooperation, leading to better skills and a higher level of play. New arrivals should be willing to join SAPD training based on what they see from them as example, and follow these examples.

As CBFASI has pointed out everything which is set as rule or even guideline will be used against you by other players. There for be careful what you wish for, and also accept that ONLY trained SAPD officers will be obliged to follow guidelines.

My take on using the suggested guidelines:

Updated!
Suggested so far:
Alan Demarest:

• No drive-bying on suspect's vehicle, unless it's faster than the Police Car.
• No heavy weapons against unarmed/lightly armed (handguns, melee weapons) suspects.

Limiting drive-by to situations where it is the only option to stop the suspects is something I am not against.
Note how I write it, this includes the common sense.

No heavy weapons against lightly armed suspects would be a matter of individual conduct. Should an officer lose his life because he is not allowed to use the heavy weapon he has ?

Tiderman:

• No drive-bying as a cop (None at all).
• No patrolling in civilian vehicles on duty.
• No other weapons used on duty than standard issued (Desert eagle, batton, pepperspray, shotgun. NO SMG!)

No drive-by as cop would indeed be a return to the rule SAPD had set at the beginning. It would also need SAPD to cooperate in suc situations.
No patrolling in civilian vehicles is something that is taken from 'realistic' ideas, yet every police force in the world patrols in unmarked civilian cars.
No other weapons used as the standard issued, would mean massive loss of life and make the no return after death discussion a new spear point for criminals.

JcsTodds:

• Use nothing but common sense...

A good suggestion if it were not that I am lacking the confidence that all player possess this.

Cesar Hernandez:

• No firearm usage against unarmed running suspect; run after him instead. You may only open fire once he gets in a car.

As long as a suspect does not attack you, I see no reason to attack them other than to stop them. However if the suspect heads for the only car in sight, I see no objection in using firearms.

FlameMan:

• No firearm usage on running suspect. You may only open fire if he doesn't respond to your "Surrender" calls.

I wonder why this is seen as a 'removed' rule ?

Corey Alterlis:

• No drive-bying against evading suspect. You may only drive-by when the offender has committed a serious offence (murder, rape, kidnap).

The problem lies in enforcing this. From the side of admins, by the time they check the crime the drive-by situation can be over. Would lead to complaints on reports not being handled.

Thomas_C:

• No drive-bying on suspect's vehicle, unless it's faster than the Police Car. You may only drive-by when the evaders open fire from their vehicle.
• No heavy weapons against unarmed/lightly armed (handguns, melee weapons) suspects.
• No patrolling in civilian vehicles on duty.
• No suspecting for speeding (or equal offence; ie. reckless driving). Pull them over instead. If they evade; suspect for evading, rather than for speeding.

As for the first three, see my earlier comments.
Regarding suspecting, see my closing idea.

Severus_Fawkes:

• Disallow officers to buy weapons (on duty), to increase the need for heavily armed units (SWAT).

First of all this would need a constant presence of heavy armed units 24/7. Next it would lead to officers stocking up on their issued weapons instead of buying.

My suggestion:
The current practice of suspecting a player only to get a ticket paid is something that I object to.
This has several reasons.
First of all by suspecting you give the player the right to draw weapons and attack cops. This means a simple speeding or parking violation can be used to create a shootout.
Second admins and high level cops have to cancelsuspect the player after paying the ticket. This leads not only to complaints if they are busy, but also interrupts the RP itself.
Finally when held against standard practices, a ticket should be the way not to get suspected, not a way to removed the suspect.

I would like to suggest a rule where removing a suspect after payment would be disallowed.

These are just my thoughts and in no way an approval or final say on the matter.

[Jcstodds]

Finally when held against standard practices, a ticket should be the way not to get suspected, not a way to removed the suspect.
I would like to suggest a rule where removing a suspect after payment would be disallowed.

  I think /suspect is used overused for such minor crimes that a ticket is usually the right level of punishment and I think this is the majority of the scenarios. I don't think I have ever seen players paying tickets for murder, evasion and other high level crimes so that they can have /su removed (under certain circumstances I have rarely done this myself). Also, a ticket can be used as a compromise to cop and criminal arguments where both parties think they are right and just (and have both done something wrong).