SAPD today - a rant

[Oliver Daniels]

There aren't a lot of people around anymore who can recall what the SAPD was like a couple of years ago, and most of those who do have either stopped caring or switched sides.

Back then we didn't have half the SAPD in a commanding position so there were a lot of 'regular' officers up and about, patrolling in regular cruisers and putting the lives of civilians first whereas these days everyone's an 'elite' officer of sorts, be it HPU, SRU or anything of the like. Quite ironically, a lot of the people resembling any sort of real officers these days are freecops, since that's basically all that they're able to do script-wise.
Us, holding a rank from Cadet to Sergeant, should be only allowed to patrol in regular cruisers and not possess any weapon heavier than the duty-issued SMG to avoid making the entire SAPD look like a bunch of trigger-happy maniacs. Roleplay should always be put before 'winning', since after all this server was founded upon the idea that people would be able to get the chance to act like someone they're not. For those of you who only care about shooting someone in the face (or back) with a combat shotgun without doing any actual beat cop work, you should resign and carry on your death squads as ARPD officers.
I know some of you are going to claim that criminals are armed to the teeth as well, but we have something they don't - infinite resources and a large supply of cops. You don't need a cannon to take your opponent down when you outnumber him 3 to 1.
I remember being part of a police organisation - the SATP, led by the recently returned Eddie Pulaski - that managed to apprehend the criminal every single time, despite us only having desert eagles and police cruisers/rangers. We did it all with teamwork and constant training, not with buffalos and /weaponequip.

Furthermore, the command staff weren't a bunch of troubled teens looking to prove themselves and justify every single one of their actions to people who have no business in it - they were people you could actually respect and look up to, even if they did appear to present themselves in an unorthodox manner at times. I'm getting sick and tired of seeing actions before thoughts from the command staff's side - people should take their time coming up with decisions and talking them over with other people (including the one receiving the punishment) to avoid a situation where the punishment simply gets revoked a couple of hours later.
I'm not saying that all of the command staff is incompetent - there are a couple of very talented and dedicated ones out there, but I solemnly believe that those who abuse their rank as soon as something doesn't go their way should be demoted to a rank where they wouldn't be a danger to others.

I cringe every time I'm patrolling with someone and they go 'criminal at X /area ID', since it blatantly shows that their only interest in this server is to chase criminals down and get their $$ without bothering to do any roleplay. I'm aware of the fact that there are criminals out there who only roll around in their NRGs blasting anyone they don't like, but that shouldn't give you the right to completely label every other orange name as a non-RPer and shoot before asking questions. As an enforcer of the law, you should ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt to everyone, be it as stressful as it may. An officer who only wishes to kill criminals would quickly get thrown into an insane asylum in real life - the point of the police is not to take lives, but to catch the ones who break the law and have them rehabilitated.
Think of yourself as a father and someone who's commited a crime as your son. If you were a good father, you would punish him when necessary but still support him despite what he's done. Your goal is to get him to change his ways, not to make it so he'd never walk again.



For those of you who are going to go "BUT DIS NOT REL LIF DIS A GAEM!!!! LOL RP IS DUM XDXDXD": do feel free to sod off.

[Jason J. Dilworth]

Respect, words of pure gold. Couldn't agree with you more..

[Huntsman]

I have to totally agree with you.

When i first joined argonath, it were no SAPD, it was ARPD , and ARPD were Freecops. I remember back then ARPD looked so professional, every freecops dream was to become one, and it wasnt easy to join ARPD back in the day either. People were honest and not rank hunting.

And these CMD Staff members who will try to give an argument that there is no favourism in SAPD- You can shove these arguments you know where. And dont try to say "You dont know anything" , because it wont work, its so obvious... A person gets accepted/reinstated and within 2 days he is already a Cpt. because he licked some higher ranked ass and sat with him in TS 24/7.

I know that most likely i will get denied due to " Shitting on CMD Staff", but tbh i dont really care no more.

[Renz0]

Absolutely f**king yes. No need to add more, no less. You said whole problem is short way.


The thing is, when i tried to implement RP between the PD, I was a whore in many people eyes. Fortunately, there is someone who is WILLING to improve things to better. Glad to see it

[Ghøst]

Max not true, that are people that trully deserve "x" rank even in few days for previous work they've done within the force that you may not be aware of so don't point that out.
And Oliver, i totally agree with you.

[Nicholas Baker]

And these CMD Staff members who will try to give an argument that there is no favourism in SAPD- You can shove these arguments you know where. And dont try to say "You dont know anything" , because it wont work, its so obvious... A person gets accepted/reinstated and within 2 days he is already a Cpt. because he licked some higher ranked ass and sat with him in TS 24/7.

I know that most likely i will get denied due to " Shitting on CMD Staff", but tbh i dont really care no more.

Most likely yes, as you're asking for it.

Remember this; Hear, see and be quiet < never f**ks you up.
Keep such opinions between your ears if you know it would get your ass kicked.

[Huntsman]

And these CMD Staff members who will try to give an argument that there is no favourism in SAPD- You can shove these arguments you know where. And dont try to say "You dont know anything" , because it wont work, its so obvious... A person gets accepted/reinstated and within 2 days he is already a Cpt. because he licked some higher ranked ass and sat with him in TS 24/7.

I know that most likely i will get denied due to " Shitting on CMD Staff", but tbh i dont really care no more.

Most likely yes, as you're asking for it.

Remember this; Hear, see and be quiet < never f**ks you up.
Keep such opinions between your ears if you know it would get your ass kicked.

Then let it be! If they're going to silence a person just because he said something against higher ranks, fine, i don't want to be part of an organisation that throws criticism to others but never accepts one against them.

[Nicholas Baker]

And these CMD Staff members who will try to give an argument that there is no favourism in SAPD- You can shove these arguments you know where. And dont try to say "You dont know anything" , because it wont work, its so obvious... A person gets accepted/reinstated and within 2 days he is already a Cpt. because he licked some higher ranked ass and sat with him in TS 24/7.

I know that most likely i will get denied due to " Shitting on CMD Staff", but tbh i dont really care no more.

Most likely yes, as you're asking for it.

Remember this; Hear, see and be quiet < never f**ks you up.
Keep such opinions between your ears if you know it would get your ass kicked.

Then let it be! If they're going to silence a person just because he said something against higher ranks, fine, i don't want to be part of an organisation that throws criticism to others but never accepts one against them.

Thats how every system works max, the world runs on that system. Y'all think you have freedom of speech and choice but you don't towards a higher person.

[Renz0]

Keep on topic.

[[R*]Pancher]

Max, your first statement is only how you think it was done. But that's not the truth at all and also incorrect fact...

Regarding the statement that cops are using the same weaponary as the criminals and should be restricted.. We do not wish to restrict people within the SAPD to much and there for we have decided to not disallow cops from using purchased weapons from ammu nations. However we still have the basic weapon regulations as in the past and it haven't changed at all. People have been allowed to use any guns they afford to purchase..

We do also not wish to restrict people from how they wish to "Rp". I prefer the way you say Oliver by finding Role Play crimes instead of /area CRIMINALID and then pursiut the criminal.. And it's more interesting and "realistic". But we all have different things we enjoy to do in this game and therefor we are quite open on how you may RP.
Ofc you most obey server rules and afew basic guidelines as an SAPD officer has to follow and signed up for by applying..

[[R*]Pancher]

I also wish to note that i appriciate constructive criticism and not bullshit talk.. If you come with constructive criticism i will listen and consider your statement.

[Ben]

Oliver, you make a good point, and I guess it's a very good thing that you posted this.

Favouritism is a sore issue really, but honestly, it's there, and always will be there. We can do our best not to do it, but it's so hard to do without regulations set out for every fart. We don't want that either.

I also agree about punishments...you made a marvellous point there.It is better to teach someone how to be better instead of slapping them away with no real lesson learnt. For example, the popular "shitting on command" isn't a good turn of phrase. Instead, it would be better if the Command Staff sat down with the officer and spoke with them about how they should conduct themselves. All an officer things from "shitting on command" is that they cannot voice their opinions. This shouldn't be the case, and I'm sure it is not.
Like Oliver said, it is better to do a positive action than a negative one. As Pancher just said, "constructive criticism". That's important, not just towards SAPD members, but also coming from them. If constructive criticism is more useful, then that is how it should be done. Negative actions just show that the Command Staff member has lost their cool, and acted unprofessionally.

Interesting that I saw this just now...I had a suspect just say "ben is more qualified". People look up to us, so we should be professional.

Don't take this as insults, but as constructive criticisms, so ideas can be built on. I basically just rewrote what Oliver said, but it is also the opinion I hold.

[Plam Knight]

Oliver I have to admit that some of these points are true, yet you put it in a fully wrong way, instead of making a proper full with evidence and ect... statement, sending it to Pancher as you know he is fully experienced and capable to deal with it, you come here making well not whining, but close to it topic. If you see something wrong then contact straight the chief of police, after all he is the most experienced member of SAPD and the one capable to deal with this.

I have to totally agree with you.

When i first joined argonath, it were no SAPD, it was ARPD , and ARPD were Freecops. I remember back then ARPD looked so professional, every freecops dream was to become one, and it wasnt easy to join ARPD back in the day either. People were honest and not rank hunting.

And these CMD Staff members who will try to give an argument that there is no favourism in SAPD- You can shove these arguments you know where. And dont try to say "You dont know anything" , because it wont work, its so obvious... A person gets accepted/reinstated and within 2 days he is already a Cpt. because he licked some higher ranked ass and sat with him in TS 24/7.

I know that most likely i will get denied due to " Shitting on CMD Staff", but tbh i dont really care no more.

First don't try to be "smart", you talk so much about favourism, well get proofs and report other then that your argument is purly invalid.
If the person was promoted to captain, then the decision was made by chief himself, if you think you know more then the chief, please do tell us your vision of SAPD.

Keep on topic.

They are keeping it on topic, after all this topic was created to discuss and they discuss a point that Oliver gave.

Oliver, you make a good point, and I guess it's a very good thing that you posted this.

Favouritism is a sore issue really, but honestly, it's there, and always will be there. We can do our best not to do it, but it's so hard to do without regulations set out for every fart. We don't want that either.

I also agree about punishments...you made a marvellous point there.It is better to teach someone how to be better instead of slapping them away with no real lesson learnt. For example, the popular "shitting on command" isn't a good turn of phrase. Instead, it would be better if the Command Staff sat down with the officer and spoke with them about how they should conduct themselves. All an officer things from "shitting on command" is that they cannot voice their opinions. This shouldn't be the case, and I'm sure it is not.
Like Oliver said, it is better to do a positive action than a negative one. As Pancher just said, "constructive criticism". That's important, not just towards SAPD members, but also coming from them. If constructive criticism is more useful, then that is how it should be done. Negative actions just show that the Command Staff member has lost their cool, and acted unprofessionally.

Interesting that I saw this just now...I had a suspect just say "ben is more qualified". People look up to us, so we should be professional.

Don't take this as insults, but as constructive criticisms, so ideas can be built on. I basically just rewrote what Oliver said, but it is also the opinion I hold.

How is this a insult, a SAPD veteran sharing his vision ? But in order to share a vision, you must have attempted to fix this somehow before it, I see no attempts of it, which makes this topic only words but no actions.

You all talk about changes and how we should improve, well improve, you all talk how SAPD CMD is that and that... Well why are you waiting for us to push you towards doing something better ? For the past several months I have been back, I see everyone posting SAPD is that and that, while they are SAPD themselv, what do you do to fix it, you know very good that SAPD CMD is for guidance, what you do on the field comes from within you.

[Jason J. Dilworth]

You all talk about changes and how we should improve, well improve, you all talk how SAPD CMD is that and that... Well why are you waiting for us to push you towards doing something better ? For the past several months I have been back, I see everyone posting SAPD is that and that, while they are SAPD themselv, what do you do to fix it, you know very good that SAPD CMD is for guidance, what you do on the field comes from within you.

The SAPD CMD should show the SAPD officers a good example how to roleplay in situations, remember you as a high ranked officer set example for all the officers, you said it right "SAPD CMD is for guidance" - what I've seen the last few days from some of the CMD staff is a huge lack of roleplaying skill, they're just unable to roleplay or they don't think it's necessary. That might be one of the reasons why all the other officers won't bother themselves to roleplay, why should they, if their superiors don't.

[Plam Knight]

You all talk about changes and how we should improve, well improve, you all talk how SAPD CMD is that and that... Well why are you waiting for us to push you towards doing something better ? For the past several months I have been back, I see everyone posting SAPD is that and that, while they are SAPD themselv, what do you do to fix it, you know very good that SAPD CMD is for guidance, what you do on the field comes from within you.

The SAPD CMD should show the SAPD officers a good example how to roleplay in situations, remember you as a high ranked officer set example for all the officers, you said it right "SAPD CMD is for guidance" - what I've seen the last few days from some of the CMD staff is a huge lack of roleplaying skill, they're just unable to roleplay or they don't think it's necessary. That might be one of the reasons why all the other officers won't bother themselves to roleplay, why should they, if their superiors don't.

Again if you don't belive SAPD CMD are capable to be example, you report straight to the chief and I am fully certain he will investigate it.

[Jason J. Dilworth]

You all talk about changes and how we should improve, well improve, you all talk how SAPD CMD is that and that... Well why are you waiting for us to push you towards doing something better ? For the past several months I have been back, I see everyone posting SAPD is that and that, while they are SAPD themselv, what do you do to fix it, you know very good that SAPD CMD is for guidance, what you do on the field comes from within you.

The SAPD CMD should show the SAPD officers a good example how to roleplay in situations, remember you as a high ranked officer set example for all the officers, you said it right "SAPD CMD is for guidance" - what I've seen the last few days from some of the CMD staff is a huge lack of roleplaying skill, they're just unable to roleplay or they don't think it's necessary. That might be one of the reasons why all the other officers won't bother themselves to roleplay, why should they, if their superiors don't.

Again if you don't belive SAPD CMD are not capable to be example, you report straight to the chief and I am fully certain he will investigate it.

Well, I've already done that and you saw it also.

[JackB]

Again if you don't belive SAPD CMD are capable to be example, you report straight to the chief and I am fully certain he will investigate it.

Report a CMD staff, for "lack of RP skill" ?

- 1st : If someone do this, he will get a "You have 24 hours to show evidences, or get punishment for spreading false rumors on CMD staff"
- 2nd : How do you want to proove it. You can't.
- 3rd : It's.. almost... a stupid report... Or in my opinion at least.

Anyway. I don't think it's the origin of the "problem".
A manhunt (of CMD staff) won't resolve this. It's a matter of everyone's daily actions.

I'd like to say also :

But in order to share a vision, you must have attempted to fix this somehow before it, I see no attempts of it, which makes this topic only words but no actions.

Before solving a situation, you must point it out.

[Julio.]

I know very little about the current method of joining the SAPD, trainingwise etc.

But seeing the standard, and attitude of some officers really highlights to me that it cannot be difficult at all.

I did 9 sessions, current Cadets do fewer (if I'm correct), I never did anything practical, which made the exam very easy, so if it's the same, that's not very good.

Cadets/Applicants should be tested on their practical knowledge and attitude, not just answering a few questions.

[JackB]

Cadets/Applicants should be tested on their practical knowledge and attitude, not just answering a few questions.

I canno't agree more with you.

It's exactly how it should be. But.. Look... There's currently 4 pages of applications...
Maybe like, 50+ applicants. How to test them all...

Maybe that recommandations (from SAPD members) should be taken very seriously.
Like, a minimum of X recommandations, to be accepted.
That could be a solution.

[Ben]

@ Plam:

I seem to have got into this rut...people think I am insulting them, so I like to confirm I am not.
If you look at my shirt reports/operations, both in the current ACS and in the old DPD boards/topics, you'll see that I and others have done what we can. That is, adopting ARPD Officers, making trainings, making organised patrols, and more.
However (and this might go quite badly) we cannot adopt Command members. We look up to them, and so they must act as the best of us all the time when on duty. Everything we do...we should be seeing from them, day in, day out.

We cannot change SAPD Command in the way we help ARPD Officers and each other...we can't tell you what to do, and we live in fear of getting punished if we turn round and say SAPD Command is wrong.

I have no objections with what most of us Officers do on the field...my post is mainly based at the attitude of Command members when an Officer does do something wrong. As an example (not to be taken as something which has happened!):

- Scenario 1 - Captain Plam Knight sees Jerome driving a Buffalo around. He PM's him with "Why are you in a buffalo?". Jerome responds, "I am patrolling sir." Plam says "Well, you can't. Get out the Buffalo, now". Jerome says "I don't understand, why?". Plam replies with "Do I need to give you a reason? I'm Command.". Jerome says "Well...it would be nice to have a reason.". Plam says "Go read what the forum says". Jerome says "Why can't you tell me? You know, and I don't. Tell me.". Plam responds with a 6hour copban for Jerome, reason: Shitting and ignoring Command.

- Scenario 2 - Captain Plam Knight sees Jerome driving a Buffalo around. He PM's him with "Why are you in a buffalo?". Jerome responds "I am patrolling sir". Plam says "Well, under the new regulations you can only use Buffalos during specific circumstances, such as a heavily armed suspect fleeing on an NRG". Jerome responds with "Alright sir, I'll return the Buffalo and grab a PD car".

In either situation, no other non-Command member would like to intervene, as Plam is a Captain. In Scenario 2, a constructive response was taken, and the situation was resolved. Scenario 1 ended badly, as the negative approach was taken.

Again, please take this as general constructive criticism. Names given above were not involved in such a scenario (I hope), and the scenario was invented by myself as an example. Now, I hope you understand what I mean.
Reiterating the point that non-Command members cannot do much about this...