San Andreas Police Department | Q&A

[Panda]

You are talking really easy for your group there Panda, let cops pay all the time to get hostage free

Yup .

but there is a last one and thats that the cop sturming on location worked and hostage got rescued

Never happened to me, ever.

you are right though that against a good experienced group it is really hard, Corleone/stracci and Yakuza(if active)
know how to handle kidnappings, but they fail also, no group can be assured of succes

True, but we've never allowed a hostage to survive and failed. Whenever we fail to get the money, the hostage dies and whatever happens from there is irrelevant (and fun! :D).

[[Rstar]Vince]

One of the main issues is that even if the kidnappers are majorly outnumbered it's not like if snipers shoot the kidnapper(s) will die. Each SUCCESSFUL hit only takes down about 1/2 health and that's if it even hits.

[Jcstodds]

One of the main issues is that even if the kidnappers are majorly outnumbered it's not like if snipers shoot the kidnapper(s) will die. Each SUCCESSFUL hit only takes down about 1/2 health and that's if it even hits.

Unfortunately it takes about 45% hit, so will need 3 hits to take out full health or 5 hits for armoured. Problem also is that snipers arn't amazingly synced due to lag and health bugs etc.

[Squeak]

You are talking really easy for your group there Panda, let cops pay all the time to get hostage free
but there is a last one and thats that the cop sturming on location worked and hostage got rescued

As leading officer at a 207 you have you think of all possible situations and attacks,
give chances to it, try to find a suitable attack with high chance of succes(hostage free)

if there is no suitable way to attack, only then pay the demands, but try everything to not pay,
but remember most important is to rescue the hostage

you are right though that against a good experienced group it is really hard, Corleone/stracci and Yakuza(if active)
know how to handle kidnappings, but they fail also, no group can be assured of succes

Wat.

[Damion_Butler]

There are no 'what else' in the situation I'm projecting here, so don't comment if you are gonna talk about a different situation by ruling something out. It's about this particular situation I'm sketching here and not anything else.

Situation:
A suspect is standing still and has not surrendered.
A cop does /s3 and the suspect is talking smack to the cop.
The cop is spraying the suspect with pepperspray.
WHILE the suspect is BEING sprayed he does /hurt or /ill.
The suspect says "STOP".
The cop keeps spraying till the suspect DIES.

I've seen this situation over a hundred times and it bothers me a lot. The cop does not break the SA State Laws, yet they are killing a person laying on the street in pain with the stuff burning in their eyes. These cops even get promotions and it truly amazes me. What are your thoughts on THIS situation and THIS SITUATION ONLY?


What I think about it is that some criminal role players are just so hardcore rpers they 'officially' give up with /gu once the cop has used a lot of /me. RPers like [RI]Erik_Fury, Mike_Parker (aka lalalla_Alvarez) and Dean_Corleone are good examples of players like these. They WILL surrender, but only after a good role play. They are always using /me. They do /ill and /hurt because they got all that stuff in their eyes. That is the right time to put your knee on their back and then take your cuffs out and cuff the suspect. Then they will surrender. So why so violent? Why no role play at all? Do you think /s3 and spraying a suspect till he dies is good role play? One cop, who is actually leader of a police group told me, he doesn't role play with suspects. I am truly amazed somebody like him is not a freecop. With all do respect to SAPD, this is not how we should operate and I honestly don't believe the high ranks are not aware of this situation that occurs very, very often. We need more proper procedures for a situation like this.

[Panda]

For your situation there, that is pretty much unacceptable.

HOWEVER, If the suspect shouts "STOP" then I write "Then /gu" and they keep stalling (i.e. talking but no /gu but also not running away), then I will pull out my glock and put a bullet in their head.
Why? Because they have backup on the way and I'd rather not die. It really is that simple a lot of the time.

I don't personally "stall", I just run around crazily doing such random jumps I'm basically unhittable until backup arrives. I do however know criminals that prefer the talking approach to stalling for backup.

[ElMartu]

Yes, IT IS unfair to kill a guy that's practically lying on the ground, but as we can't force them to surrender, we have no other choice.

[jemerson]

Well it comes down to Officer discression. You must remember this is a RP server. This is something people often forget, we are not a Cops and Robbers server.

* Jake Emerson tackles

/em Sucess?
OR

* Jake Emerson takes out taser

* Jake Emerson shoots cartidridge

/em Hits? /ill

Sometimes you have to take down a suspect, but remember some people just want to roleplay.

[Damion_Butler]

Well it comes down to Officer discression. You must remember this is a RP server. This is something people often forget, we are not a Cops and Robbers server.

* Jake Emerson tackles

/em Sucess?
OR

* Jake Emerson takes out taser

* Jake Emerson shoots cartidridge

/em Hits? /ill

Sometimes you have to take down a suspect, but remember some people just want to roleplay.

This is why I love you 

[Jcstodds]

  I do not support the whole 'pepper spray until they die' RP. I have told officers about this before. How can a criminal surrender if they are being constantly shot in the friggin face with pepperspray? THEY CAN'T.

There are a number of methods that I personally use.
- If I believe the crime is minor, I will ask them to comply and go with me without cuffing (in RP or otherwise), and threaten to shoot their legs off if they run. 

- If crime is serious, more hard hitting action will be taken. Some (well lots) of shouting might occur, depending on attitude of criminal. If criminal is professional, they will get a professional response (unless crime is personal). If criminal is a scumbag gangster:
Suspect is talking offensively to a cop
[Rstar]Jcstodds shouts: "Shut the f**k up! Get your dirty hands in the f**kING AIR NOW!"
* [Rstar]Jcstodds unsheathes his cutting sword
[Rstar]Jcstodds shouts: "Move it now or I'ma gonna cut something off!"
* [Rstar]Jcstodds takes aim at the mans arms and swings crazily
[Rstar]Jcstodds shouts: Raaaaaghhhh!

  Usually by this point they cooperate should they be willingly RPing. It's really a case on what the situation needs. Obviously I don't charge at all criminals like that, but there will be some cases where it is appropriate. But it is up to the cops to deem what is an appropriate and fair method of arresting a criminal. Spraying them with pepper spray when the criminal is standing still is definitely not fair or appropriate, since Pepperspray is designed to stop melee/ close range attacks only.

  Problem with some people, they think surrender = /gu .

[ElMartu]

Well said, Jcstodds, but happens, not much people would actually comply if you just threaten them to cut a finger off.

[Jcstodds]

Today I very nearly did my first cavity search on a man who wouldn't hand over his drugs. What do you know, he 'found' them just before I was about to start. Had the gloves on and the car oil and everything.

[JDC]

Today I very nearly did my first cavity search on a man who wouldn't hand over his drugs. What do you know, he 'found' them just before I was about to start. Had the gloves on and the car oil and everything.

The Power of Cavity Search.

I love how we can violate a Criminal's personal dignity through law enforcement procedures without going against any human rights or state regulations.

[Damion_Butler]

Situation:

Player A is driving in his car within the speedlimit. Cop A pulls him over and says it's a routine-check. Cop A tells him to get out the car and wants to frisk him. Player A asks why? Cop A makes up a bullshit story, saying he was seen at a drugdeal.

This is all good? Two Senior Officers did this to me in two days.

[Janar]

Situation:

Player A is driving in his car within the speedlimit. Cop A pulls him over and says it's a routine-check. Cop A tells him to get out the car and wants to frisk him. Player A asks why? Cop A makes up a bullshit story, saying he was seen at a drugdeal.

This is all good? Two Senior Officers did this to me in two days.

Actually, Senior Officer lieing is not correct! If you got nothing to be afraid of, you should just co-operate.

[Damion_Butler]

Situation:

Player A is driving in his car within the speedlimit. Cop A pulls him over and says it's a routine-check. Cop A tells him to get out the car and wants to frisk him. Player A asks why? Cop A makes up a bullshit story, saying he was seen at a drugdeal.

This is all good? Two Senior Officers did this to me in two days.

Actually, Senior Officer lieing is not correct! If you got nothing to be afraid of, you should just co-operate.

Ye well that's not really what I'm wondering. The guideline says you can't do a body search unless he's suspicious. So the cops make something up that makes them suspicious. Is this allowed? Does SAPD encourage this? What's the deal here?

[Bianconeri]

if they do a body search under false condition/accusation then its not allowed,
police work is also about public relation, no lieing to civillians

but SAPD encourages lots of bad things, so maybe here too

[Jcstodds]

 Cop A makes up a bullshit story, saying he was seen at a drugdeal.

 The guideline says you can't do a body search unless he's suspicious. So the cops make something up that makes them suspicious. Is this allowed? Does SAPD encourage this? What's the deal here?

 
  In this scenario, no it is not good, Senior Officers should know not to do 'random routine checks' and should always have a reason, such as any suspicious observations that may lead them to any crimes are involved. If officers see what looks like a suspicious transaction, they can by all means investigate further, should they think it looked a bit fishy.

  Random/ routine patrol stops are not encouraged, and to clarify, by 'suspicious' does NOT always mean they have to be suspected (/su). It means that they believe, from what they saw, a crime may have been committed. It is the officers choice to use /su if they feel the criminal will not cooperate under the circumstances - since most times a fine or warning may suffice - which does not require /su. If the person cooperates the procedures are carried out quickly and efficiently. If the person starts to kick up a fuss, it will only make officers even more suspicious of the intent of the person.

but SAPD encourages lots of bad things, so maybe here too

  I don't think this is the right place to post such remarks. General discussion or SAPD Briefing if you have any concerns. It is up to all the higher ranks to encourage good things! And you are a Sergeant - So it is partly your responsibility also to do this! 

[Bianconeri]

  I don't think this is the right place to post such remarks. General discussion or SAPD Briefing if you have any concerns. It is up to all the higher ranks to encourage good things! And you are a Sergeant - So it is partly your responsibility also to do this! 

who says i dont then  and i already posted all concerns enough times last months
but i guess nobody reads it
as Sgt. i got no vote in anything though, its up for command staff

[Jcstodds]

who says i dont then  and i already posted all concerns enough times last months
but i guess nobody reads it
as Sgt. i got no vote in anything though, its up for command staff

  As a Sergeant you are the first the command staff will listen to, since you are on the front-line and should have the most experience in game leading the officers. Sergeants are the most influential on the server as they should be the most active, hands on police of the PD. If you think you have no vote, then perhaps your PD needs some better communication going on? Or maybe your just telling the wrong people! You belong to a PD, talk to the command staff in your PD about problems. (Since I have done no background on you personally I have no idea if you already have done this, in which case it is a lack of communication inside the PD).