Dolfa_Kleidis - Abusing copbann and not doing his investigation work properly

[JackB]

Directed to: SAPD CMD.
SAPD Officer Policy violators: Dolfa Kleidis

Dolfa_Kleidis - Did not make his Lieutenant work properly on my report.
L.S.P.D.

Date: 11 July 2012.

I got reported by someone for being "rough". The report can been seen here. But, I have never been notified by anyone of that case.
Nonetheless, the Lieutenant Dolfa, who was in charge of the case, did not even waited my statement on that case.

The worst is, that I got copbanned 3 extra days for "roughness" on a RP situation where I was indeed RPing a rough cop (like in the real life guys, it's time to wake up).
I was not aware that ARPD cops (or SAPD) aim was to be kind with everyone. I was not even aware that there is a rules that states it. I doubt there is, thus, I broke no rule.

I can still remember that situation. The guy who reported me was just talking in "/l" for OOC chat. He claimed all time "omg abuse" "watch that freecop" etc... While I was trying to make a SIMPLE traffic stop, all in RP.
As proof of my good faith, I did not suspected him immediatly, while many others would have already done.

Poeple doesn't know how to RP, or they don't want, and I get punished for it.
This is definitly unnaceptable, and I expect some answers.

So, to sum it up, here is what I blame to Dolfa :

• Did not gave me a chance to explain myself on that story.
• Copbanned me while I broke no rule (being rough on a RP isn't a rule).
• Based his jugement on statements, but not on evidences.
• The case has been opened for 1hr15mins before Dolfa takes his decision.

Signed
YackB.

[AirLiuzzi.]

I witnessed the rough RP by Officer Jack and hereby state my witness report on behalf of that specific case. I also had no chance to place this witness statement on the report while it was open because he did not get notified about the report nor was asked for his statement.

The report against him was opened at:

July 11, 2012, 17:10:55 pm

The report against him was closed at:

July 11, 2012, 18:26:52 pm

That means that the case got closed after roughly 1 hour and 15 minutes without his or any of his witnesses statements. That doesn't sound fair to me, especially in this situation where he didn't even break any SAPD rules.

The Officer handled correctly in every way. He was RPing and nothing more, he did not abuse the man. What is wrong with RPing a tough cop? Most of the real life cops aren't going to be super friendly with you. There's cops who RP like gangsters, cowboys, booze addicts and so on.
As you can see from the report there is absolutely no evidence of him abusing, all there is are some OOC texts. There have been exactely 0 SAPD rules broken by this Officer. Even IF he was to be found guilty of being rude it should be punished with an Administration action, not an SAPD one.

[JackB]

The report against him was opened at:

July 11, 2012, 17:10:55 pm

The report against him was closed at:

July 11, 2012, 18:26:52 pm

That means that the case got closed after roughly 1 hour and 15 minutes without his or any of his witnesses statements. That doesn't sound fair to me, especially in this situation where he didn't even break any SAPD rules.

Oh my god, I did not even noticed this. Indeed, 1 hour and 15 minutes is a quite fast decision.

I hope SAPD will recognize that mistake, and offer me a second jugement, where I will be able to give my statement, and where the FACTS and the RULES will be first in the list.

[[Rstar]Paul]

You need to answer the following questions.

Why report him now when the report was closed 20 days ago?
Have you tried contacting Dolfa via PM before submitting the report?
Do you agree that you did violate a consituational law?

As for you not having a "chance" to provide your statements..

User: Jack_Ruth Posts: 0   Times viewed: 5

(like in the real life guys, it's time to wake up)

We don't base anything here in real life, GTA logic and Argonath vision..
It's time to realize that?

Did not gave me a chance to explain myself on that story.

We do not require statements from the defending party if not needed, statements are only considered if the investigating party needs them. Just depends on which case and what has been violated.

Copbanned me while I broke no rule (being rough on a RP isn't a rule).

As much as you want to RP, if you violate a rule or talk like a cool guy saying whatever you want with a rubbish mouth, you violate a rule. Simple as it can be. And the words you said are not even in the RP situation, Mr. Pew Pew.
Based his jugement on statements, but not on evidences. Being a corrupt cop in RP is accepted, but if a high ranked from the ARPD catches you, then your punished. Same as saying whatever you want, if you would like to do that, then by all means go ahead - but a higher rank will eventually punish you if you get caught doing so. Everything was taken into considering. Evidence was the top one.

The case has been opened for 1hr15mins before Dolfa takes his decision.

.. And?

I would of done the same to copban you, so would everyone else. No doubts.
And why should i consider this report whilst you get punished for a similar reason in your server ban, but here you did it while you were on cop duty.. 
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=86891.msg1381444#msg1381444


If you come up with unreasonable answer whatsoever, your report will be closed.

[JackB]

Why report him now when the report was closed 20 days ago?

Because I just noticed it when I searched 'JackB' word on the forum yesterday, to find my old application.

Have you tried contacting Dolfa via PM before submitting the report?

Not before, but after I did, and he told me to wait for the decision.

Do you agree that you did violate a consituational law?

Absolutely not. I wanna know which rule/law I broke.

As for you not having a "chance" to provide your statements..

User: Jack_Ruth Posts: 0   Times viewed: 5

Well sorry mate, but the 5 views were all old of yesterday.

We do not require statements from the defending party if not needed, statements are only considered if the investigating party needs them. Just depends on which case and what has been violated.

Let me read you the constitution, maybe it will help.

Code: [Select]

Ordinance I: In all prosecutions, a citizen shall have a right to a speedy and public trial in the state of the crime/civil action he or she is being prosecuted for, and the right to representation by an attorney. Failure to attend the court case you are involved in will result in your opponent winning the case.

Code: [Select]

Act IV: A person is innocent until proven and declared guilty.
In this situation, from the beginning I was considered guilty and got no chance to explain myself on it. I didn't got a fair and equal prosecution.
Everyone who testified against me could speak, but I couldn't defend myself. This is not in accordance with the Argonath Constitution.


Now, in the situation. I was doing a traffic stop on someone (the guy who reported me), when other poeple came and tried to interupt it. They were saying things like "what's going on here !" or "you're abusing, he's innocent !". I did not /su the driver at all. And I would like to remind that a cop can pullover anyone for a routine traffic stop. So, at the beginning already, I was just doing my job.
Then, the driver ignored my RP (I was saying the usual thing "Hello I'm officer JackB, passport and driver licence please."). He kept ignoring me. So I started to take a more rough-RP cop caracter. He was not even answering me.
Thus, indeed, I started to be rough with the driver, by asking him "Passport and driver licence now.". And the other guy who was spectating, and obviously trying to make this situation a C30, was still there to say "WTF are you doing stupid cop, let him go away".

I WAS JUST DOING A TRAFFIC STOP.

Thus, I believe it is incredible to copbann 3 days a person for doing a trafic stop and shouting in poeple's ear cause they pretend to be deaf to avoid the trafic stop.

I will conclude with some constitution again. Enjoy it.

Code: [Select]

XII.I: Obstruction to justice: Anyone who cause, by their presence or action or any by any means disrupt the tasks of a law enforcement person is to be charged by obstruction to justice. Anyone who refuses too cooperate with a law enforcement personnal who has legal motives to act can be charged with obstruction to justice.The person who were spectating was obstructing.
The person who was in the car was obstructing as he refused to cooperate (by showing ID and Licence driver).

Code: [Select]

Act XIII: Provocation: Provocations can be done by the purpose of blows, words or gestures. Provocation is illegal and anyone doing such act must be withering stopped or arrested.The both guys provoked me. Chatlogs may proove it easily.

Code: [Select]

Act XVI: A law enforcer cannot be blamed if injuries or death occur if a suspect opposes resistance.Simple as that. I even took the caution to kill the suspect with my bat, as he has shown no weapon.
And chatlogs may also proove that I may used 30x /S2 or /S3 before acting such.

[JackB]

The case has been opened for 1hr15mins before Dolfa takes his decision.

.. And?

And.. and do you think it is possible to offer an impartial and thoughtful jugement in 1 hour, without asking logs, without the testimony of the defendant and without true reason (as I did not broke any rule, or if I did, it was server rule, not SAPD/ARPD rules) ?

There have been exactely 0 SAPD rules broken by this Officer. Even IF he was to be found guilty of being rude it should be punished with an Administration action, not an SAPD one.

What I request is that you return on the jugement, and recognize me as non-guilty. I also want official excuses from SAPD.
I do not want any actions to be taken against Ltn. Dolfa, as I don't consider him as fully responsible of this.
I know I'm hated because I did wrong things, and I'm not seeking love here.
But, showing poeple that simply RPing tough (cop)bannable is dangerous, as it is just encouraging stupid cop-job => 2 warnings then /SU then /S2 then /S3 then pew-pew.

[[Rstar]Paul]

That's not the main point though.. the main point here is that if you are caught PROVOKING and violating any rules under any RP circumstance, you'll be punished directly with no doubts. Statements from the defending party do not need to be provided if its a clear direct evidential proof.

But, showing poeple that simply RPing tough (cop)bannable is dangerous

We certainly do not care if you think it's RP or not, if you are caught RPing violating a rule, you are caught. RPing something is a risk if its intended to be a violation. Vice versa..

because I did wrong things

So what's the point of this report?

recognize me as non-guilty

Look above, proving you out here saying you did do wrong things.

I also want official excuses from SAPD.

Fella, this is your report. Not ours. We do not need to provide anything as each action taken by Lieutenant Dolfa is valid.

Nothing is showing anything that needs to be taken in consideration in this report. If there is anyone to blame, it shall be you in the start. Think before you act, because you will expect the consequences, no matter whether if you like it or not. Similar reason why you got server banned, because of your so called "RP".

Anything else you wish to be informed of before the report is closed?

[JackB]

That's not the main point though.. the main point here is that if you are caught PROVOKING and violating any rules under any RP circumstance, you'll be punished directly with no doubts.

Tell me wich rules I broke.
In the conclusion of the report against me, Ltn. Dolfa didn't pointed out wich rule I would have broke.

It seems as if the 4 days copban (which was not executed, yet JackB was found guilty of two days ago) did not make him realise what he was doing wrong and that he should stop after being warned already. The evidence is condemning and the witnesses reports are uncontradicted. Therefore JackB is found guilty for the reasons stated above. If such actions are repeated by JackB again, he shall receive a larger punishment.

[JackB]

Now, if you don't mind, I'll review each statement, one by one.

I acknowledge this picture for real.

As I passed down the road and noticed Officer JackB being very offensive and rude, I stopped by and see what was going on. Appeared that the reporter notified the Officer using /em that he was not interested to roleplay, however the officer forced himself upon the roleplay, even though the traffic stop occured for no valid reason aswell.
When the reported kept telling him he wasn't willing to take part in the roleplay, the officer rudely suspected him, dragged him out of his car and removed the entire armour using his baton. After the reported was forced to give up, the officer brought the reported to LSPD.

During the way from Commerce to LSPD, The accused officer claimed me from wrongdoing by supporting the suspect on this situation.

Here the administrator Doggi got involved and later on the person was unsuspected.

M. Caltson forgot to say that I warned him a lot of times, and I gave him a lot of chances to cooperate before I suspect him.
I was really patient, and my goal was not to suspect him at first. But, viewing how the driver was acting, I couldn't act differently.

It was clearly obstruction to justice as he refused to cooperate (the driver).

Code: [Select]

XII.I: Obstruction to justice: Anyone who cause, by their presence or action or any by any means disrupt the tasks of a law enforcement person is to be charged by obstruction to justice. Anyone who refuses too cooperate with a law enforcement personnal who has legal motives to act can be charged with obstruction to justice.
I also want to point out the fact that I stopped this driver for a reckless driving in Market Avenue. It was not "for nothing" like Caltson said in the statement.

Then, after I suspected him, yes, I dragged him out of his car, warned him to surrend (using /s2 and /s3), but he was not doing anything. So I started to kick him with my baton, like the SAPD regulation say so.

Code: [Select]

-Suspect is idle -- You must use ONLY pepper spray or baton, if they fail to comprehend after warnings, and you cannot apprehend, you may use baton or pepper spray to take down. (If suspect is armed with fire-arm while idle, you still must only use pepper spray or baton, it is advised you have another Officer to cover you with a gun).

[[Rstar]Paul]

- Misuse his fire-arm and shot a suspect standing still
- Terrible attiude / behaviour in RP
- Provoking as a cop

Additions of copban are done by step which is broken and taken as rule-break.
You have received a total of around 6-7 days of being copbanned due to you being a regular and a past SAPD member which makes you aware of the rules and how to act correctly.

No matter what the constitution says about citizens, you are a cop. You are to act in a proper manner, just because a citizen provokes you or so does not mean you have the permission to provoke or do anything that violates a rule.

[JackB]

- Misuse his fire-arm and shot a suspect standing still

Seriously ? I suggest you to review the case. Because even the statements made against me proove that I used indeed my BATON against an IDLE suspect. I did not shot him.
I respected the SAPD regulation regarding the weapon.

the officer rudely suspected him, dragged him out of his car and removed the entire armour using his baton.

- Terrible attiude / behaviour in RP

On what do you base your jugement to say this ? On the only screenshoot you received ?
Is it copbannable ?

- Provoking as a cop

Ok, so everyone, keep in mind that asking a trafic stop is provoking citizens.

Is that the message you want to give to your officers, Chief Paul ?

[[Rstar]Paul]

No assumptions on how i review a case, i have all the information required.

Seeing the copban was expired over 10 days ago, what would you like to prove? Because it will not change anything whatsoever.

[JackB]

Like I said, I want excuses from SAPD and being acquitted from this case.
Even if it won't change anything "materialy", it's important to recognize that I'm not guilty of RPing a trafic stop.

And don't think it's to ridiculize you, or Dolfa. No, it's just to admit that I was innocent of this.
It's not because I got server banned, or copbanned for an other reason, that I shall be guilty of everything.

[[Rstar]Paul]

Like i said, like it or not. If you RP being a violating cop with your cool words which is seen by us as a threat towards citizens, you'll be punished.

No excuses. Therefore, you are guilty of all charges. Witnessed by SA:MP Administration and investigated by the investigating party.

Anything else before the report is closed?

[JackB]

Like i said, like it or not. If you RP being a violating cop with your cool words which is seen by us as a threat towards citizens, you'll be punished.

But I was not.. I was RPing a caracter who was quite tough, but not violating the rules !

As I demonstrated it, I broke no rules.

[[Rstar]Paul]

Look, you may think your words might not be that kind of threatening, but in a sense, we find it extremely disrespectful for a ARPD Officer to threat a citizen like that.
You need to understand the difference between RP and your rights. I can only say that you need to act in a more respectful way in both RP or in /em. That is a server punishable offence and can led to a ARPD copban if it's necessary depending if you are a regular and know the rules correctly.

I can't also say that you are plead un-guilty as you did something wrong there, unfortunately. Nor can Dolfa be blamed, but it is considered that you always expect a report on you if you did something wrong.

[JackB]

I understand that you will never review the case, thus, I will open a court case against the S.A.P.D.

Have a good day.

[[Rstar]Paul]

I understand that you will never review the case

You think i f**king wasted my time doing nothing and putting effort in answering your questions?

Reasons were given. Seeing as you like pointing out the reasons as a sign of excuse, then you have no choice.
I'm keen to see this court case.