SA:MP - "closed" SAPD

[Matthew Carter]

Training will indeed help those who want to progress in SAPD, however it won't help those with intentions to just mess with their family enemies with /Su.
The training is a great idea tho.

[Jake Parker]

I know this won't really happen, but let's give it a try, I wanna know how many people support this, maybe if enough of us are supporting this, things could change.

No matter how many support this, it wont happend.

Instead of talking about SAPD become a closed group, talk about what you can do to improve SAPD.

I've already got an idea in the formation :3 You can't ask for a better department... But you can train for one... Once I get the proper feedback from other Academy Instructors and Cmd. I see my idea happening. The proper training for all will happen.

What we're going to close off is the amount of trolls we have in SAPD. We're going to close off the lack of knowledge SAPD has and form a much better, much more knowledgeable department.

Also concerning the fact about people in SAPD messing up. They get dealt with eventually. While it's not pretty to watch them give us a bad name I think we can actually help out the department by just handing the knowledge to the uneducated. Some of the "trolls" don't mean to troll. They're just not educated well. I'm pretty sure I would've been kicked out of SAPD if I wasn't taught well. When I started in RS4, I was learning fast but had problems adapting to Argonath. Eventually people helped me (Thanks to the RS4 Community) and I learned. While closing off the SAPD may sound like a good idea, I think we'll just end up kicking out the people that don't mean it and want to try to learn; Some people need to be closed off but not all...

I fully support this and i will be able to help you with it.

[Huntsman]

I agree with this suggestion. SAPD should become application only organisation.

[AVMarcel]

The idea alone frightens me because it will repel new players which will in turn cause an even bigger drop in playerbase.

About the reporting and copbanning: why not leave it to the court? Let people report offending officers/agents to the court under a special board called "Government complaints". Judges bring verdicts, hand out a punishment if needed. Keeps a clear line between the offender, the 'victim' and the people judging the complaint, so the process is transparent and unbiased.

[James Moretti]

About the reporting and copbanning: why not leave it to the court? Let people report offending officers/agents to the court under a special board called "Government complaints". Judges bring verdicts, hand out a punishment if needed. Keeps a clear line between the offender, the 'victim' and the people judging the complaint, so the process is transparent and unbiased.

Because that process takes to long. We need it right there on the spot while it happens.

[Leon Arallian]

Besides, it already exists right here 
And works the same way and has the same timing most of the time.

[AVMarcel]

About the reporting and copbanning: why not leave it to the court? Let people report offending officers/agents to the court under a special board called "Government complaints". Judges bring verdicts, hand out a punishment if needed. Keeps a clear line between the offender, the 'victim' and the people judging the complaint, so the process is transparent and unbiased.

Because that process takes to long. We need it right there on the spot while it happens.

Why would it take any longer than reporting it via the ARPD forums? Plus, it promotes roleplay without needing more scripts.

[Jake Parker]

Or the in game judging system like reporting it to the command an reporting it to the civil court the change there is on of the 2 online is big and it can be handled by the judges in game and on scene if there is non of the 2 online you can report them on the arpd forum. Anyone agrees with this? Included the command staff please let me know what you think of this solution.

Edit: If you like the idea, i have sorted out how we can do this.

[[WS]Mike]

The SAPD will not become an application only group.

Judges will not reserve the right to issue punishments to officers on the field, or through a complaint. We work with FBI IA on certain cases if necessary.

"Cop-unban" is not something that can happen (from CBF himself)

I appreciate the feedback, but many of the suggested changes "being supported" by other people doesn't mean they will happen.

[Nexus Riggs]

Never said this is a new idea, I know it's been suggested before but I want to give it another try.
Better to try and suggest something than go ingame and moan how everything sucks like most of people do since RS5.

In a sense the system that was not too long ago was closed, but the actual idea of removing the lowest accessible rank and to make SAPD an internal group was indeed suggested, denied and it will probably be denied for a long time ahead. I won't say Argonath Vision cuz that sentence is far too overused, considering people rub off anything with it. But this idea was already denied multiple times for the very reason "It goes against Argonath Vision." and belive me a lot of people have tried to achieve that, including old SAPD commands that go way back in to the years and I belive even the most recent command staff have attempted that as well, sadly the only answer you get is "Argonath Vision", so there is no point to make another topic 20 pages long, just to end with the same outcome as the many before it.

And in a sense this idea would completely kill Argonath with the player base issues it has recently.

Completely agree with Plam.

We can resolve these issues without considering "closed" SAPD by thinking of the alternatives. We have already taken bold steps within our current limits to ensure all officers entering the central department meets the eligibility requirements. In the past, there were attempts to make this happen and it never went through because it went against Argonath's principles.. In fact, we also admire Argonath's vision, because we had no issues with it in the past. In the early stages of SAPD, we had a great department, with great people who cared about the team, the leaders and the community. It is matter of retaining those core values we uphold in SAPD and training the current staff to shape the future, but nothing will happen with just conversations. People need to start making others aware of what's right and what's wrong, guiding the new officers, organizing patrols and making people understand the endless opportunities that they have. 

[Miyamoto Parker]

The SAPD will not become an application only group.

Judges will not reserve the right to issue punishments to officers on the field, or through a complaint. We work with FBI IA on certain cases if necessary.

"Cop-unban" is not something that can happen (from CBF himself)

I appreciate the feedback, but many of the suggested changes "being supported" by other people doesn't mean they will happen.

I agree with you.

[Chase]

Judges will not reserve the right to issue punishments to officers on the field, or through a complaint. We work with FBI IA on certain cases if necessary.

"Cop-unban" is not something that can happen (from CBF himself)

Do keep in mind that FBI IA is not a replacement for administrative work that's needed for certain trolls who keep choosing to repeat their offenses after being told not to. But we will deal with cases of officers actually putting effort to roleplay their misuse of duty and corruption.


If this permanent cop ban idea is not on the table, then I would actually like to hear from administration on what is being done about these bad eggs. We can't keep copbanning them temporarily over and over, as they will simply get back on and continue.

[Rusty.]

Those who only on duty to troll/annoy/dm and be general assholes will eventually be server banned.

I would love nothing more than SAPD to be a closed group like FBI is.  Since Argonath RPG is stuck in a hole it doesn't want to come out of it just won't ever develop, no-one is trying to take away the "fun" from others by wanting it this way.  Cop duty is the most abused system in-game by far, if you see different then go get a thicker specs as you are oblivious to what I and many others see. 

[Plam Knight]

After I had a chance to think about it, I realised this topic is actually got posted at perfect time, its a time of change and a time during which the server is vulnreable while standing back up. And this topic should serve as way to open the eyes of the new officers that are coming in to the server. Ideas such as a "closed" department or very restricted department will never be accepted in Argonath, its just the way Argonath has built its way for the past 7-8 years. In a sense Argonath is cursed, but as well blessed - Its cursed due to the fact the way the server is managed and operates, there will never be a strict structure implemented in to SAPD to keep everything organised, simply because its not in Argonath's vision, but in the same time that is a blessing, because it gives us the oppurtunity to experiment on the field and build that serious structure on the field. Instead of posting ideas such as make "Closed SAPD" or  make stricter rules or etc... You should apply your idea in to the field, you should find people that share your views and together perform the job in the standard and manner you want, as long as that standard doesn't fall of the bare minimum SAPD has set.

Now some might say, well that's what multiple divisions have attempted to do in the past, but they were closed and people have said " SAPD dislikes them" and "command staff hates them". Well that is incorrect, during my time I've had to close some divisions and I was present in the upper command during times where previous chiefs have had to close divisions and I can assure you, there was a never a reason "We hate that division, so we will close it". The main problem that always occured with divisions is they started with generally with a nice and pure idea to serve and protect in a certain manner, but slowly with success and members they began to look at the division as a way to obtain power and force their wishes, they started to encourage their members to follow other chain of command that orders them not to follow the SAPD Command and they attempted to force the SAPD/Owners in to giving them official scripts and so forward...

What I am trying to say with all that is the changes can come from you(the officers) and only you, no command staff or anybody else can force changes, without officers to follow them, if you wish stricter SAPD then apply it yourself, show strictness and professionalism yourselv and pass it on to the officers next to you and in no time you will see people that only use the duty as a way for free weapons or simply to troll will be standing out of the normal officers and will be quickly dealt with.

[Huntsman]

Inn a sense Argonath is cursed, but as well blessed

The first thing that came to my mind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpTizzox2Qo#t=413

its just the way Argonath has built its way for the past 7-8 years.

And that might be exactly what's wrong. Argonath is afraid of change.

[TinMan]

Being since Argonath changed to Cargonath I do indeed agree with this idea. 

[Nexus Riggs]

Being since Argonath changed to Cargonath I do indeed agree with this idea.

Please refrain from bumping old topics.

With the current state of the server and the player count, it would be unwise to make SAPD a closed group. The bright side of SAPD being open to all is that it gives every player an opportunity to experiment our work, our structure and explore their options in law enforcement first hand. There will always be some that would disagree, which is completely okay, so it would be the best if this idea was rather proposed on the main forum where you can get direct and substantial response from the server leaders and owners who can make this type of changes to the police force.

[Ronaldo]

Discussing it or not freecop system won't be removed as it goes against Argonath Vision which gives equal rights to play to all players.

[Huntsman]

Discussing it or not freecop system won't be removed as it goes against Argonath Vision which gives equal rights to play to all players.

Umm... As much as I appreciate your efforts to show us how much your attitude has changed over your absence in Argonath, I still think you moving around forums and posting in topics you have nothing to do with trying to look the Mr. all knowing wizard is rather... dumb.

[Ronaldo]

Discussing it or not freecop system won't be removed as it goes against Argonath Vision which gives equal rights to play to all players.

Umm... As much as I appreciate your efforts to show us how much your attitude has changed over your absence in Argonath, I still think you moving around forums and posting in topics you have nothing to do with trying to look the Mr. all knowing wizard is rather... dumb.

It was any open discussion and i give my point i didn't want to harm any one.