Every Officer should be given Armour

[Louis]

Not full armour, but, let's say, 50 or 75% should do the trick. Also, some SMG bullets can help, especially for drive-bying.

Why half protect an officer when you have the opportunity to fully protect an officer (or as much as you can). If armour is going to be given, may as well give full armour. I know this isn't real life, but real life officers don't get half of an armour vest :P

[Monte Montague]

This talk of SMG etc...

Armor needs to be given.  Officers should not be dipping into their own pockets to do their job, however many have to.

SMG by SAPD is treated as a heavy weapon and so should not be given out as a standard duty weapon.
There should be a process in obtaining an SMG, not simply "you're SNR so have SMG".
The SMG is a tactical weapon not something worthy for immediate self defence.

Only tactically trained units should be equipped with it as standard issue - such as a SAPD heavy response.

If the Snr Officers get SMG as a standard issue weapon, you will see me, I promise, when the ability is re-made or just with a white name, handing out m4's for free to those below the rank of SNR Officer. As I did in RS4. Almost $2m was spent on giving away free M4's.

I will not stand by and see those of a lesser rank be subjected to a greater risk of persecution by suspects because the suspects know "oh he's just a officer, he's not that well armed"

The SMG is not something you just hand out.
A pump action shotgun is more appropriate, not the SMG.

[David Gonzalez]

Question, why would SAPD command hand out weapons to people below Snr. Officer, who clearly have no training, no regulations, and some, no idea how even behave on duty and can't even follow simple rules.

Shotgun is even worst, because if these cops can hit another officer in the crossfire with a deagle, with a shotgun is even easier, i support the idea that people that didn't went through the SAPD academy, should be given, Pepper, baton.
They are not trained on how to use a weapon so they don't use it.
If they feel threatened quit SAPD or apply to become a Ranked SAPD officer so you could get a lethal weapon on duty.
And if officers are expecting for SMG, Armour and such for /duty or /rearm, well think about your actions, think about your disrespect towards the command and towards Civilians, think about how you act on police duty, after thinking about that, ask yourself if you deserve any of that, and if you think you do, let me tell you guys, you are delusional.

[Mang]

Question, why would SAPD command hand out weapons to people below Snr. Officer, who clearly have no training, no regulations, and some, no idea how even behave on duty and can't even follow simple rules.

Because on Argonath, basically everyone, has or can easily get a gun. An officer with a baton can't do shit against a corleone with a combat shotgun.

think about your actions, think about your disrespect towards the command and towards Civilians, think about how you act on police duty.

Heh... Oh the irony...

[Leon Arallian]

What says it's not easy for officers to easily get an equal gun too then, mang? 

In a preferred case, some expect you to be able to do with the desert eagle and/or the SMG, which can prove more effective than the sheer force of a combat if you have the experience of both using your gun and your surroundings.

Not saying you'd be a Level 100 character VS a level 26 or something in an RPG, but many seem to think that having the same weapons means you have the same chance in a fight.

[Mang]

Leon, sure, we can and buy our own weapons or use deagle, but Celso mentioned that officers that are untrained shouldn't use any weapon except spray and baton.

[Francisco Martinez]

Not supported. There must be some equality between cops and criminals. Police Officers with armor would just be another factor to increase the "rambo cops". When you go to the field and buy your own armor, you know that it costed you something, so you will think twice between getting in a no-brain shootout. If you want to be fair then give the Don's the ability to equip their families and gangs with armor as well, because they all pay for it with money they get from their "jobs".
I do believe that regular shotgun should be a standard weapon but that's another discussion so let's not get out of topic.

I sense this would get a different reception if posted in the main Argonath forum.

Wondering if a police officer could investigate approximately how many officers are injured in the line of duty and we can go from there? 

Then cross it with another investigation: How many officers patrol with partners?

Combat would also be a step forward

And rockets as well, I mean how can you defend yourself from a 9mm without a missile?

The problem with the LEO isn't the lack of equipment, brains and teamwork are the key factors here.

[Leon Arallian]

Celso mentioned that officers that are untrained shouldn't use any weapon except spray and baton.

At most that would just be a suggestion, and I do understand why it was made.

[Francisco Martinez]

Leon, sure, we can and buy our own weapons or use deagle, but Celso mentioned that officers that are untrained shouldn't use any weapon except spray and baton.

Then untrained players(newbies) shouldn't have access to fire weapons.

[Huntsman]

I see no point in giving regular SAPD officers armor. Will take out fun out of progression through SAPD.

[Mang]

Then untrained players(newbies) shouldn't have access to fire weapons.

Usually, I'm not one to bring up the Argonath vision, but...

Argonath gives equal rights to new, experienced and admin players

Because players are new(therefore untrained), they shouldn't be forced to not use firearms.

[Dimos]

Most times i can't find none want patrol with me its me fault idt so i patrol alone and without armor and equipment also the armor i suggest will be give on duty and removed when go off duty also SMG for senior officer most of senior officer know what to do okay i agree sometimes the crossfire but they need stop when a officer go foward them and not shoot

[Louis]

Not supported. There must be some equality between cops and criminals. Police Officers with armor would just be another factor to increase the "rambo cops". When you go to the field and buy your own armor, you know that it costed you something, so you will think twice between getting in a no-brain shootout. If you want to be fair then give the Don's the ability to equip their families and gangs with armor as well, because they all pay for it with money they get from their "jobs".

I knew someone would say this sooner or later. You're basically saying if cops have armour, then it's not fair for the criminals. This is a roleplay server, not a team deathmatch server.

I see no point in giving regular SAPD officers armor. Will take out fun out of progression through SAPD.

I don't agree with this either. Why should you have to be a high rank to get free armour? I don't see why SAPD Officers should be less protected than higher ranks.

We FBI agents wear armour (we have to), and most of the time we're not the ones getting into shootouts. It's the SAPD officers, so why shouldn't they have armour?

[Dylan]

I knew someone would say this sooner or later. You're basically saying if cops have armour, then it's not fair for the criminals. This is a roleplay server, not a team deathmatch server.

Exactly.

I don't agree with this either. Why should you have to be a high rank to get free armour? I don't see why SAPD Officers should be less protected than higher ranks.

We FBI agents wear armour (we have to), and most of the time we're not the ones getting into shootouts. It's the SAPD officers, so why shouldn't they have armour?

Because those who are Senior Officer+ get benefits by joining the SAPD and so by passing the SAPD academy.
Maybe more people will join the SAPD when they have "benefits"..

[Monte Montague]

Louis speaks sense. I remember having to wear a suit of armour in the FBI back in 2010. There was little to no active risk to us, but constantly to the SAPD officers. They should get armour.

If anything a captain is more suited to work inside the PD than on the field so simply because he is a higher rank should not mean he has access to better defence whilst the scum class are having to fight on the front line.

Because those who are Senior Officer+ get benefits by joining the SAPD and so by passing the SAPD academy.
Maybe more people will join the SAPD when they have "benefits"..

The benefits should be the pay and access to on the job support (because they have more expected of them), not their life being more important because of some rank...
This is really despicable.

Officers should be equally defended and should all get access to basic life saving armour of some sort especially when they are doing the same job facing the same damn risk.


I put it to you... are SAPD snr officers expected to be makeshift versions of tactical forces such as an SRU or SWAT? No...

They are just like SAPD officers. With expectants to play more of a bureaucratic role such as in investigations and with better access certain abilities.

Create an SRU or a much more active SWAT to deal with heavy situations in which an SMG is given as a normal duty weapon.

SAPD Officers need respect and nothing less. They need to be respected for the job they do, not because of if they have what it takes to be a SGT or not. A SGT has his job, a Captain has his job.  A SAPD officer is a front line worker.

Respect is not earned, it is a birth right to everyone regardless of their lineage or rank.

I see no point in giving regular SAPD officers armor. Will take out fun out of progression through SAPD.

Maybe you see the point but refuse to accept it.

Question, why would SAPD command hand out weapons to people below Snr. Officer, who clearly have no training, no regulations, and some, no idea how even behave on duty and can't even follow simple rules.

Shotgun is even worst, because if these cops can hit another officer in the crossfire with a deagle, with a shotgun is even easier, i support the idea that people that didn't went through the SAPD academy, should be given, Pepper, baton.
They are not trained on how to use a weapon so they don't use it.

If they feel threatened quit SAPD or apply to become a Ranked SAPD officer so you could get a lethal weapon on duty.
And if officers are expecting for SMG, Armour and such for /duty or /rearm, well think about your actions, think about your disrespect towards the command and towards Civilians, think about how you act on police duty, after thinking about that, ask yourself if you deserve any of that, and if you think you do, let me tell you guys, you are delusional.

You are really trying to play the devils advocate aren't you...

"think about your disrespect towards the command" in your post you have pretty much told SAPD officers to get lost.
Would you really like that put to the test? Probably not.

I will translate to you what this "If they feel threatened quit SAPD or apply to become a Ranked SAPD" comes out layman's terms: "f*ck off you low class people", if that wasn't your intention then you should really think about how you post things.

If I haven't already made my belief on this post clear enough from the above, which looks to be towards destruction and not actual building on things or aimed at improvement...

No one should be given SMG unless they are a heavy response team such as SWAT or the SRU (prior to how it ended) or the like. 

If all of the SAPD officers went off duty tomorrow then you can be rest assured there would be nothing past SAPD Snr for any longer than a week - there'd be no  reason for command at all.

SAPD officers are not single use and dispose. If they have no training, you give them it, this is the reason of a command structure, not set-up simply to belittle. They are still bound by regulations of SAPD and law. They are still police officers.

Celso mentioned that officers that are untrained shouldn't use any weapon except spray and baton.

At most that would just be a suggestion, and I do understand why it was made.

A vile and despicable suggestion at that.


 I would like to move for ARPD Commission review of this suggestion for all officers to receive some sort of body protection such as Armour.

[[Rstar]CBFASI]

ARPD Commisioner is aware, however there is no democracy at this level.  Awareness has been raised, thats as far as it goes publicly, there are other matters to attend to, and this also requires discussion at levels outside of ARPD.

Topic Locked..