SAPD - Where we at on driving skills?

[TinMan]

Hi SAPD,

I have been doing a lot of patrols and doing a lot of compliance checks with a lot of officers in game. It has came to my attention that everybody in the SAPD is failing on the lack of driving. Driving essentially is a skill that does take years to master but I have notice the level the SAPD is at is way below than everyone else. The question is how do we improve on driving? Is it the lack of hands-on knowledge officers are facing? Or the lack of map knowledge? I feel that the majority of SAPD are also responding too slows to scenes to get from SAPD to Bayside should only be 2 1/2 minutes. I would say that the overall average is about 4/10.  Later on in my time I am going to make a response chart on how fast you should be able to respond to specific locations and also distances.

In-Game I am willing to train officers the hands on experience, knowledge, and tips and tricks to become a more experienced driver.


Lets discuss.



 

[Pedro]

I've been noticed that as well, not only for the response time but the speed limits, specially in Los Santos.

Police is here to give the example, alot of time that I pull over someone for speeding they always say "I'm sure your coleagues do the same".

In my opinion a patrol following the speed limits is a nice one, not only civilians will look at you and take a positive though "Wow this cop is following the traffic rules" also other new officers will start following your example.

Police is here to follow the laws, we are not above it.

[Dutchy]

How about police driving lessons in the academy for cadets that obviously need it?
Would just be a crash course madeup of basic obstacles that require skill to avoid and to reach the end ASAP.
Something that's more specified than the SAPD driving test. Although it would only be for SAPD Officers+

[DarkShadowBlade]

Ha. Wanted to implement driving trainings but nobody cared. How ironic.

On serious notes, I did have plans to make a uh pursuit training guide and mock session with the help of ARA for this big global training fair I had planned, but had to push that away since some "people" were getting... "touchy/negative" with me at the time.

So far, I haven't really seen interest in people wanting to improve their driving beyond that of just Command members and Supervisory Officers since most think they drive well, and for argo's case, that's ok. I can go ahead and make those plans I had a reality (Since they're actually done and just sitting there lol), but honestly from what I've seen so far, nobody really "cares" to drive better or learn how to drive efficient, except some Supervisory Officers+ so it'd just be waste of time for everyone in the end...

How about police driving lessons in the academy for cadets that obviously need it?

I do hope, for your sake, that that was not a hit on the Academy. If you feel an officer is driving hazardously there is a report section.

[Pedro]

If you feel an officer is driving hazardously there is a report section.

To be honest I don't see how reporting officers for their lack of skills will help them improve. As punishments are given as last resource.

[DarkShadowBlade]

If you feel an officer is driving hazardously there is a report section.

To be honest I don't see how reporting officers for their lack of skills will help them improve. As punishments are given as last resource.

Hazardously: In a dangerous manner

So if they're driving on sidewalks and running people over... That can be reported. This is what I meant. As for overall improvement, refer to the post I made.

[Andrew Banks]

It's not the issue if shit driving, it's the issue of failing to following the driving rules and not having the ability to drive in a proper line of pursuit, and not ramming everyone out of it without paying attention, if we can just make officers stay in a pursuit line, and make sure that if they pass by, they don't do it 1CM next to another officer, a lot of things will change and I am sure no other driving classes will be needed.

[Louis]

It's not HARD to drive on GTA SA, everyone can drive to a reasonable standard by pressing a few buttons. The reason people drive like rubbish is because they can do it and get away with it. If Officers were punished for clearly driving like an idiot, then in future they would refrain from doing it. Pursuit rules should be made and enforced by all SAPD Command, in my opinion. Also civilians or Officers who witness other Officers driving badly and setting a bad example should be reported on these forums.

Of course, people make mistakes and it's usually easy to tell when an officer made a mistake in his driving or is intentionally driving like an idiot.

[[R*]Drix]

Ha. Wanted to implement driving trainings but nobody cared. How ironic.

On serious notes, I did have plans to make a uh pursuit training guide and mock session with the help of ARA for this big global training fair I had planned, but had to push that away since some "people" were getting... "touchy/negative" with me at the time.

So far, I haven't really seen interest in people wanting to improve their driving beyond that of just Command members and Supervisory Officers since most think they drive well, and for argo's case, that's ok. I can go ahead and make those plans I had a reality (Since they're actually done and just sitting there lol), but honestly from what I've seen so far, nobody really "cares" to drive better or learn how to drive efficient, except some Supervisory Officers+ so it'd just be waste of time for everyone in the end...

How about police driving lessons in the academy for cadets that obviously need it?

I do hope, for your sake, that that was not a hit on the Academy. If you feel an officer is driving hazardously there is a report section.

It's not HARD to drive on GTA SA, everyone can drive to a reasonable standard by pressing a few buttons. The reason people drive like rubbish is because they can do it and get away with it. If Officers were punished for clearly driving like an idiot, then in future they would refrain from doing it. Pursuit rules should be made and enforced by all SAPD Command, in my opinion. Also civilians or Officers who witness other Officers driving badly and setting a bad example should be reported on these forums.

Of course, people make mistakes and it's usually easy to tell when an officer made a mistake in his driving or is intentionally driving like an idiot.

You can implant driving trainings, you can punish officers for recklessly driving, it will be repeated and it will still be the same.
Why?
Because Argonath is like that, civilians do not care about the driving nor cops do, it comes from both sides and both sides have to be improved.
What improvement?
Now days i'm witnessing officers going after orange dots, and driving around bored pretty recklessly or simply hunting random civilians to suspect them.
The roleplay is gone, the initiative is gone therefor we're facing these consequences, i'm talking about not being able to pursuit someone without getting rammed by your own officers, not being able to drive properly without being rammed. I don't even do any traffic tickets anymore because when i look at the blue side they are doing the same!
So?
 So, it is up to us to do the change, the SAPD. Now we can do that by organizing different traffic operations concentrated on teaching officers to improve their driving and their common sense on pursuits, teaching them traffic laws, and involving them into traffic operations such as - "Speed Traps Set ups" "Covering up a MVA"  "Traffic Stake-out" "illegal parking tickets" and much more different operations involving traffic. If we do that weekly or daily, like we do Organized Patrols i can ensure that the roleplay driving into SAPD will gradually grow. And this is not it, it is also the other side... the civilians. Once our roleplay driving has started growing up and we're doing things by the book the civilians response will be the same, in-case we have any traffic stops they won't react something like " Well cops do it to!" but they are obligated to roleplay it with us.There can also be SAPD Motor Vehicle Safety Programs, where Sergeants+ can brief civilians on how to avoid traffic motor accidents and how to react when involved into it(Then i believe we would get 911 calls about MVA's something that has NOT happened these days)
Check - Motor Vehicle Safety Program.

If everyone agrees with me then let's start it out gradually by joining me or anyone who organizes these types of operations in-game.

[Louis]

Ha. Wanted to implement driving trainings but nobody cared. How ironic.

On serious notes, I did have plans to make a uh pursuit training guide and mock session with the help of ARA for this big global training fair I had planned, but had to push that away since some "people" were getting... "touchy/negative" with me at the time.

So far, I haven't really seen interest in people wanting to improve their driving beyond that of just Command members and Supervisory Officers since most think they drive well, and for argo's case, that's ok. I can go ahead and make those plans I had a reality (Since they're actually done and just sitting there lol), but honestly from what I've seen so far, nobody really "cares" to drive better or learn how to drive efficient, except some Supervisory Officers+ so it'd just be waste of time for everyone in the end...

How about police driving lessons in the academy for cadets that obviously need it?

I do hope, for your sake, that that was not a hit on the Academy. If you feel an officer is driving hazardously there is a report section.

It's not HARD to drive on GTA SA, everyone can drive to a reasonable standard by pressing a few buttons. The reason people drive like rubbish is because they can do it and get away with it. If Officers were punished for clearly driving like an idiot, then in future they would refrain from doing it. Pursuit rules should be made and enforced by all SAPD Command, in my opinion. Also civilians or Officers who witness other Officers driving badly and setting a bad example should be reported on these forums.

Of course, people make mistakes and it's usually easy to tell when an officer made a mistake in his driving or is intentionally driving like an idiot.

You can implant driving trainings, you can punish officers for recklessly driving, it will be repeated and it will still be the same.
Why?
Because Argonath is like that, civilians do not care about the driving nor cops do, it comes from both sides and both sides have to be improved.
What improvement?
Now days i'm witnessing officers going after orange dots, and driving around bored pretty recklessly or simply hunting random civilians to suspect them.
The roleplay is gone, the initiative is gone therefor we're facing these consequences, i'm talking about not being able to pursuit someone without getting rammed by your own officers, not being able to drive properly without being rammed. I don't even do any traffic tickets anymore because when i look at the blue side they are doing the same!
So?
 So, it is up to us to do the change, the SAPD. Now we can do that by organizing different traffic operations concentrated on teaching officers to improve their driving and their common sense on pursuits, teaching them traffic laws, and involving them into traffic operations such as - "Speed Traps Set ups" "Covering up a MVA"  "Traffic Stake-out" "illegal parking tickets" and much more different operations involving traffic. If we do that weekly or daily, like we do Organized Patrols i can ensure that the roleplay driving into SAPD will gradually grow. And this is not it, it is also the other side... the civilians. Once our roleplay driving has started growing up and we're doing things by the book the civilians response will be the same, in-case we have any traffic stops they won't react something like " Well cops do it to!" but they are obligated to roleplay it with us.There can also be SAPD Motor Vehicle Safety Programs, where Sergeants+ can brief civilians on how to avoid traffic motor accidents and how to react when involved into it(Then i believe we would get 911 calls about MVA's something that has NOT happened these days)
Check - Motor Vehicle Safety Program.

If everyone agrees with me then let's start it out gradually by joining me or anyone who organizes these types of operations in-game.

Yes, things like that can be done to teach officers. But when officers continue to drive like idiots, punishments should be given. If no punishments are given, they'll keep driving like idiots because they know nothing will happen.

[Miyamoto Parker]

Ha. Wanted to implement driving trainings but nobody cared. How ironic.

On serious notes, I did have plans to make a uh pursuit training guide and mock session with the help of ARA for this big global training fair I had planned, but had to push that away since some "people" were getting... "touchy/negative" with me at the time.

So far, I haven't really seen interest in people wanting to improve their driving beyond that of just Command members and Supervisory Officers since most think they drive well, and for argo's case, that's ok. I can go ahead and make those plans I had a reality (Since they're actually done and just sitting there lol), but honestly from what I've seen so far, nobody really "cares" to drive better or learn how to drive efficient, except some Supervisory Officers+ so it'd just be waste of time for everyone in the end...

How about police driving lessons in the academy for cadets that obviously need it?

I do hope, for your sake, that that was not a hit on the Academy. If you feel an officer is driving hazardously there is a report section.

It's not HARD to drive on GTA SA, everyone can drive to a reasonable standard by pressing a few buttons. The reason people drive like rubbish is because they can do it and get away with it. If Officers were punished for clearly driving like an idiot, then in future they would refrain from doing it. Pursuit rules should be made and enforced by all SAPD Command, in my opinion. Also civilians or Officers who witness other Officers driving badly and setting a bad example should be reported on these forums.

Of course, people make mistakes and it's usually easy to tell when an officer made a mistake in his driving or is intentionally driving like an idiot.

You can implant driving trainings, you can punish officers for recklessly driving, it will be repeated and it will still be the same.
Why?
Because Argonath is like that, civilians do not care about the driving nor cops do, it comes from both sides and both sides have to be improved.
What improvement?
Now days i'm witnessing officers going after orange dots, and driving around bored pretty recklessly or simply hunting random civilians to suspect them.
The roleplay is gone, the initiative is gone therefor we're facing these consequences, i'm talking about not being able to pursuit someone without getting rammed by your own officers, not being able to drive properly without being rammed. I don't even do any traffic tickets anymore because when i look at the blue side they are doing the same!
So?
 So, it is up to us to do the change, the SAPD. Now we can do that by organizing different traffic operations concentrated on teaching officers to improve their driving and their common sense on pursuits, teaching them traffic laws, and involving them into traffic operations such as - "Speed Traps Set ups" "Covering up a MVA"  "Traffic Stake-out" "illegal parking tickets" and much more different operations involving traffic. If we do that weekly or daily, like we do Organized Patrols i can ensure that the roleplay driving into SAPD will gradually grow. And this is not it, it is also the other side... the civilians. Once our roleplay driving has started growing up and we're doing things by the book the civilians response will be the same, in-case we have any traffic stops they won't react something like " Well cops do it to!" but they are obligated to roleplay it with us.There can also be SAPD Motor Vehicle Safety Programs, where Sergeants+ can brief civilians on how to avoid traffic motor accidents and how to react when involved into it(Then i believe we would get 911 calls about MVA's something that has NOT happened these days)
Check - Motor Vehicle Safety Program.

If everyone agrees with me then let's start it out gradually by joining me or anyone who organizes these types of operations in-game.

I agree with you in this campaign for teach the shit drivers let's them know how to driving safety.

[TinMan]

I am not here to talk about driver's safety or hazardous driving that is a whole another issue. I am not talking about driving in peacetime. This is about driving response times to pursuits and any high-priority situations [please don't get this confused with organization either..this is ultimately driving response times].

I have notice the amount of SAPD police officers are utilizing the brake too much coming almost to a complete stop to make a turn...instead of drifting, driving around obstacles without losing speed, making wider turns. I see nothing but slowness.


When I am driving: I wish I could record myself driving but I don't have fast enough computer

The "W" [accelerator] key should be pressed at a maximum and will be let off for a few seconds around corners and turns.

The "A" and "D" [turning] should be pressed just enough to make your turns and not over or under doing.

The "S" key [brake] should be used at a minimum tapped only for a half second then immediately utilizing "Space" [handbrake] to drift around sharp turns.

The "Space Bar" [handbrake] should be used for wider turns to drift around the corners to maintain a constant speed.

The "Mouse" I use the mouse to observe obstacles around me at all times and use tap "MMB" whenever my camera is messed up.

Short Cuts - I always utilize shortcuts. This part is the biggest my advantage among all to intercept suspects during pursuits. We do have to be creative since LSPD is not the fastest vehicle.

Driving Example: Turning from LS-LV to Julius Thruway South...there is no reason to lose speed around any of those corners. There is wide enough space to fully drive 175 km/h without losing control. To do so you must turn as wide as you can.



Now when other people drive this is what is happening.....

The "W" key not being pressed at its fullest and causing other officers in the same vehicle as them passing them

The "A" and "D" key not being pressed early enough or pressed to late...I see the timing is off for most officers.

The "S" key being pressed too long causing the driver to slow all the way down sometimes coming to a complete stop

The "Space Bar" [handbrake] not being utilized at all for tight corners and not even drifting.

Today I was patrolling with an officer and I warned if he comes to a complete stop going around corners I wasn't going to allow him to drive anymore when I patrol with him. I told him the way how I know how I drive and he was able to respond to situations faster than what he was doing earlier. We were able to catch more suspects all because of knowledge, trust, and full compliance by listening to me he was able to respond to scenes at the right times.

It's not HARD to drive on GTA SA, everyone can drive to a reasonable standard by pressing a few buttons. The reason people drive like rubbish is because they can do it and get away with it. If Officers were punished for clearly driving like an idiot, then in future they would refrain from doing it. Pursuit rules should be made and enforced by all SAPD Command, in my opinion. Also civilians or Officers who witness other Officers driving badly and setting a bad example should be reported on these forums.

Of course, people make mistakes and it's usually easy to tell when an officer made a mistake in his driving or is intentionally driving like an idiot.

You are right it is not HARD to drive on GTA SA..


@DarkShadowBlade
It is interesting to me that your plans were shot down and I have always wondered why nobody gave a shit either. This is a serious issue the SAPD is having today and needs to be fixed. This issue is not only to lower ranks of the SAPD but also to the higher ranks. I have started an event to encourage competition but nobody got involved. http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=33371.0 I am not sure why skills are lacking within the whole SAPD. I will be more than happy to help you get these plans started. I think there should be some standard driving training requirements for cadets to pass before being accepted into the SAPD and still make it reasonable to pass.

[DarkShadowBlade]

TinMan, my plans were never shot down. I delibrately put them away because there were some people in Command that were not on very good terms with me and there was some bickering, so that's why I pulled it. The pursuit training I had, still has all the plans laid out and such. Blueprints on how to set up the court was completed a long time ago... Everything is there, it'll just take time for me to get all the people for it, and I won't do that since there's like 10% interest in learning better driving.

What was shot down was my individualized approach to teaching high speed driving like with HSP cars, and having it being restricted to Seniors+ with the training. This was prior to you and other Ex-SRU guys returning.

[TinMan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puvR_lnPhzI&feature=youtu.be

Due to the FPS lag I was unable to show how I drive to my best. This video is intended to show how to efficiently turn around corners without slowing down significantly but enough to complete the turn.

[Louis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puvR_lnPhzI&feature=youtu.be

Due to the FPS lag I was unable to show how I drive to my best. This video is intended to show how to efficiently turn around corners without slowing down significantly but enough to complete the turn.

I completely disagree with how you drive. That sort of driving is what I was referring to in my previous posts, driving like an idiot. If this was a Stunt Server, CnR server then your driving would be fine. But that sort of driving is what causes so many crashes, is completely unrealistic and influences other officers to drive the same which is why the majority of the officers drive like this.

It's just my opinion, I don't think you should be driving like that on a roleplay server. It's not setting a good example for others, at all.

[Plam Knight]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puvR_lnPhzI&feature=youtu.be

Due to the FPS lag I was unable to show how I drive to my best. This video is intended to show how to efficiently turn around corners without slowing down significantly but enough to complete the turn.

I completely disagree with how you drive. That sort of driving is what I was referring to in my previous posts, driving like an idiot. If this was a Stunt Server, CnR server then your driving would be fine. But that sort of driving is what causes so many crashes, is completely unrealistic and influences other officers to drive the same which is why the majority of the officers drive like this.

It's just my opinion, I don't think you should be driving like that on a roleplay server. It's not setting a good example for others, at all.

I am pretty sure that's his driving, while he is chasing a wanted fugitive, otherwise if he follows your advise and chases them within the speed limits and following every traffic law, it would take him few years.

[Louis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puvR_lnPhzI&feature=youtu.be

Due to the FPS lag I was unable to show how I drive to my best. This video is intended to show how to efficiently turn around corners without slowing down significantly but enough to complete the turn.

I completely disagree with how you drive. That sort of driving is what I was referring to in my previous posts, driving like an idiot. If this was a Stunt Server, CnR server then your driving would be fine. But that sort of driving is what causes so many crashes, is completely unrealistic and influences other officers to drive the same which is why the majority of the officers drive like this.

It's just my opinion, I don't think you should be driving like that on a roleplay server. It's not setting a good example for others, at all.

I am pretty sure that's his driving, while he is chasing a wanted fugitive, otherwise if he follows your advise and chases them within the speed limits and following every traffic law, it would take him few years.

I didn't say following speed limits or every traffic law, but driving the way he does is just stupid when you look at it with a bit of realism. Baring in mind this is a roleplay server.

But hey, what can I expect. I guess I'm use to something different.

[Dutchy]

I didn't say following speed limits or every traffic law, but driving the way he does is just stupid when you look at it with a bit of realism. Baring in mind this is a roleplay server.

But hey, what can I expect. I guess I'm use to something different.

No you're right, but so is Tinman.
It's important to be able to quickly respond to scenes, but it's crucial to be able to drive properly when not in a rushed situation.
Tinman is talking about proficient tactics and Louis is talking about protocol safety measures when driving at all times.

[DarkShadowBlade]

Topic is a bit dead but I felt like saying:

Tinman's way of driving in a regular code 3 response is not a good idea for there are unknown elements such as random cars, pedestrians and such. Therefore following traffic laws is what's needed. In a regular chase against a previon or something, Tinman doesn't need to drive like that. It's inefficient and can be dangerous.

However, his driving for when chasing a fast car such as an Elegy, Bullet, Buffalo is perhaps the best way you can chase. Even in an HSP car like a cheetah or bullet, you have to drive like that to close the distance between the suspect and yourself. If you're in a regular cruiser chasing these kind of fast cars, you have to drive like that. If you absolutely must get there due to a dire situation like a Code Purple, then driving like that would be necessary.

Not everyone should drive like Tinman did in his video. That kind of driving should be left to people that absolutely know how to make those kind of judgement calls and chase fast cars with unpredictable scenarios, however it is still good to know this in the case that you are alone chasing an elegy or such, but even then there is a limit to what the PD car can do, and there is a limit to what you can learn by watching videos. You'll have to repeatedly practice and practice to get better. For those that are new here there are some great drivers right now in SAPD, so you should contact them if you already have a above average driving skill. They'll show you how you can keep up with cars that others can't like elegys... just don't expect to catch an infernus or bullet on a straight line.

[Kronwell]

We need to take it seriously ... right line!