Equip Heavy Weapons to SAPD

[TinMan]

Directed to SAPD Command

Howdy,

*Sheriff Tinmothy Manners reports*

Awhile back I made a topic Lets Make SAPD Great Again, but I never suggested how we make it great again. I was going to get to that but whenever there is a problem you must come up with a solution otherwise it is b!tching. I get that. As a veteran of the SAPD, I see a huge problem and that is failure to equip officers with the proper tools to help win the fight! This is due to a lack of a backbone from SAPD leadership to the higher leadership/headquarters. What I mean is nothing has been accomplished to change something wrong to something that is right and to be able to get the job done the first time. I understand why they had the rule of not equipping officers with M4/Sniper in the first place and that was only to make it FAIR between the criminals/civilians and the cops. Times have changed and we need leadership to adjust to this change and finally fix it.

I am starting to get pissed off whenever I only get SMG, Shotgun, and Country Rifle equipped to a massive weed field situation of heavily armed criminals or a massive terrorist shootout (Between FLA and SAPD) and then get our asses whooped. We have criminals out there with high notoriety shooting off rocket launchers, grenades, M4, and even sniper and the criminals result winning. If we could get the proper tools/equipment then we can actually be able to neutralize the situation, but if we are running around with the faulty toy guns and our fists up our ass then what good does it do to even respond? The rule needs to be adjusted where all cops including recruits can get M4 and Sniper. 

My solution (on my end/side) is the next time I get issued SMG to a scenario with massive criminals (terrorist, weed field, 207, etc...) that M4 and Sniper is required. I will go off duty and you can respond by yourself and perhaps I will even join the suspects and kill your dumbass. It's simple.

1. Step up and be a leader!
2. Be Smart!
3. Adjust/Adapt to each situation!
4. Properly equip your units (take care of your people and your people will take care of you)!
5. You can go home ALIVE at the end of the day and SAPD WINS  !

If this continues to happen, I will ensure other units will go off duty. M4 and Sniper or gtfo.

Regards,

Tinmothy Manners
 

[[Rstar]John]

Fully agree with you.

[W. Harrelson]

I agree.

[Francisco Martinez]

My solution (on my end/side) is the next time I get issued SMG to a scenario with massive criminals (terrorist, weed field, 207, etc...) that M4 and Sniper is required. I will go off duty and you can respond by yourself and perhaps I will even join the suspects and kill your dumbass. It's simple.

1. Step up and be a leader!
2. Be Smart!
3. Adjust/Adapt to each situation!
4. Properly equip your units (take care of your people and your people will take care of you)!
5. You can go home ALIVE at the end of the day and SAPD WINS  !

If this continues to happen, I will ensure other units will go off duty. M4 and Sniper or gtfo.   

Your natural ability to f**k up an idea that could've been well based in solid fact is astonishing.
First of all directing a letter to the CMD and writing down "I will even join the suspects and kill your dumbass" deserves a round of applause for the attitude showed by a veteran police officer to the new ones.
Secondly "If this continues to happen, I will ensure other units will go off duty. M4 and Sniper or gtfo. " You're free to leave at any point, but from the moment you're giving the idea that you will encourage others to leave, that should be punished.

With this post I assure you that you belong to a cops 'n' robbers server since the only points you pinned relate to guns and nothing to do with organization nor role-play which should be the main focus of this group.

These are just my two cents

[Webster]

Don't like it? Don't do it. Simple as that. I don't mind being equipped with SMG and/or Shotgun only to be honest, that's why we have trained SWAT Operatives there to handle the heavy artillery when it's needed, this is not a Cops 'n Robbers server.

Seeing as I've served in SAPD for quite a while I'm pretty impressed with the regulations and procedures the Command has set.

P.S. I can't seem to ignore your idiotic behavior at all, are you 10 years old?

[Deluca]

I have to agree with Eric Caltson here. Sniper and M4 is restricted to divisions such as SWAT only. Be grateful you're actually getting SMG-MP5, Shotgun and an armour from us. I have no desire to equip M4s to freecops who I do not trust will put it to good, and furthermore appropriate usage. If the M4 or Sniper is abused on someone who is running around with a Deagle, then that can be reported to an administrator and who do you think they will come back to just because you went on your little M4 killing spree? The one who gave the M4 to begin with. This is the reason that Cadets are not authorized to use any other equipment than Deagle, Baton and Spray. Because they are under training and do not know the regulations perfectly yet. If you want to go off duty because I didn't grant you M4 usage, then you can stay off duty.

[Luke]

This is a prime example of what my topic directs at.

[DamienT]

It's common sense, if you have the weapons avalible..USE IT, thats what was demonstrated today and good job to the SAPD Recruits involved.

[Fred]

After seeing your replies and since this is a old discussion, many of you probably didnt relise that SAPD dont have access to that weapons (sniper ans m4). I repeat SAPD dont have access to sniper and m4, it's restricted in the weapon equip. The unique divisions/agencies that are allowed to weaponequip m4 is SWAT and FBI. The unique divisions/agencies to equip sniper is SWAT, FBI, STAR. Not even suspects havê access to that without going into the black market, making that weapons illegal.

You are wondering why, those are special weapons used by trained groups. For example yesterday receita were provided with a sniper and almost all died against 1 sniper at angel pine.

FBI can equip SAPD members with those weapons if requested or if they assume its needed.
SWAT only can só such thing if authorized by the commander David.

What should SAPD upper command to do for a script change:
- Decide if they really want those changes.
- Talk with any HQ members to see if its approved
- If it's approved i Can update the weaponequip command.

About the initial post, i think the words should be moderated and you should at least try to talk with a upper command member coming here and making treats to SAPD is not the correct way especially because you are not even a high active member.

My opinion about this subject is pretty simple, SAPD is a law enforcement agencies based on Police Officer normal job. With this i mean, our job is to catch criminals, issue tickets and give backup on major situations. SWAT is the team needed in such operation and there is the reason why they havê such weapons and SAPD dont. We are not trained enough for this kinda of weapons easy as that and i will see people using m4 after the operation for sure. Such implementation can only be done if SAPD close himself having a team of SAPD Cadet + trained for such cases and right now it's not even close to be possible due the amount of SAPD officers + active we have. We expect to have a good number of members by the end of the year due the new recruitment system. After all the variables i said, this is not a idea for now and if needed SAPD should ask to FBI or SWAT for such weapons in extreme cases.

[Bruce`]

@Fred Regarding yesterdays situation. When you came online two more groups with officers were killed including SWAT. We were equiped with snipers by FBI which aswell told you to give us the weapons but you rejected it since you said SWAT cant equip normal officers. Then when we arrived at Angel Pine you decided to drive through them and shout that you were there to talk, meanwhile myself and two other officers were saying that dont bother to negotiate because they had already killed many of us and we like 3 or 4 of them. And yet we ended up retreating from flint county with the half of the officers we went there.

Now my suggestion is this.

We ask HQ to give SAPD a second chance to be a closed group since the first time was horrible and was lacking officers. Regular schedule trainings on usage of heavy weapons for normal SAPD Officers and above. And not only for usage of heavy weapons but also other things. And if that shows good results why not allow normal officers to be equipped with heavy weapons.

[Serban]

I agree

[Fred]

@Fred Regarding yesterdays situation. When you came online two more groups with officers were killed including SWAT. We were equiped with snipers by FBI which aswell told you to give us the weapons but you rejected it since you said SWAT cant equip normal officers. Then when we arrived at Angel Pine you decided to drive through them and shout that you were there to talk, meanwhile myself and two other officers were saying that dont bother to negotiate because they had already killed many of us and we like 3 or 4 of them. And yet we ended up retreating from flint county with the half of the officers we went there.

Based on your statement, you are not aware that I resign from my SWAT position so it 's nothing related to SWAT because I don't have anymore those rights. So right now I only permission to equip sniper due STAR rights so be sure before you talk you know the entire situation.  FBI don't have any authority to tell to me I should equip you with sniper or not, it's a decision that should come from my STAR Commander, Lieutenant Taseen or even SAPD Captain or higher since the rights are from STAR duty.
You don't know too but someone from them were calling me before some recruits open fire at them with the snipers so I can assume the snipers you got equipped provoke the last situation due a bad usage from some recruits.
Such attitude won't bring heavy weapons for SAPD and I am sure of it.

As I said bellow too, SAPD is not a tactical force or a specialized team for heavy shootouts and that mentality need to change. For those situations we have SWAT or any task forces created and of course SAPD can SUPPORT them easy as that.

[Bruce`]

Based on your statement, you are not aware that I resign from my SWAT position so it 's nothing related to SWAT because I don't have anymore those rights. So right now I only permission to equip sniper due STAR rights so be sure before you talk you know the entire situation. 

Well you said "No, don't give them heavy weapons" and then started equiping us SMG and shotgun. Would have been better if you could just said "I can't equip heavy weapons".

You don't know too but someone from them were calling me before some recruits open fire at them with the snipers so I can assume the snipers you got equipped provoke the last situation due a bad usage from some recruits.

Well instead you could have just briefed us of why we were going to Angel Pine, but instead you just took us there.../m We are here to talk and then there was snipers shooting at us. And you just rushed there without taking 4-5 more officers that came to LSPD as requested. And "recruits" didn't provoke anything, it was them who started shooting at us. So please, stop blaming it on recruits. They did what they were told to do. They didn't shoot, until they started shooting at us.

As I said bellow too, SAPD is not a tactical force or a specialized team for heavy shootouts and that mentality need to change. For those situations we have SWAT or any task forces created and of course SAPD can SUPPORT them easy as that.

And that is exactly why I suggested this.

Regular schedule trainings on usage of heavy weapons for normal SAPD Officers and above. And not only for usage of heavy weapons but also other things.

Best example of why SWAT can't handle such situation alone is the one yesterday. SWAT went there by their own with I think 4-5 more officers and they lost. What would have happen if they could have just gather more units? There were like 10+ officers on the second wave which would have joined SWAT on the first wave and probably executed the enemy.
Let's just try to think and organise stuff instead of rushing like Rambo.

[Francisco Martinez]

Make sure you take your personal grudges to some other place.

What should SAPD upper command to do for a script change:
- Decide if they really want those changes.
- Talk with any HQ members to see if its approved
- If it's approved i Can update the weaponequip command.

My opinion about this subject is pretty simple, SAPD is a law enforcement agencies based on Police Officer normal job. With this i mean, our job is to catch criminals, issue tickets and give backup on major situations. SWAT is the team needed in such operation and there is the reason why they havê such weapons and SAPD dont. We are not trained enough for this kinda of weapons easy as that and i will see people using m4 after the operation for sure. Such implementation can only be done if SAPD close himself having a team of SAPD Cadet + trained for such cases and right now it's not even close to be possible due the amount of SAPD officers + active we have. We expect to have a good number of members by the end of the year due the new recruitment system. After all the variables i said, this is not a idea for now and if needed SAPD should ask to FBI or SWAT for such weapons in extreme cases.

So... from the first part I learned that you can make an extremely hard scripting task which is giving SAPD the ability to weaponequip. If you won't say anything constructive you can refrain from posting since it's kind of bad to see a Sergeant with ideas like that IMO.
SAPD was closed before and the same thing happened times and times: it's called lack of leadership and organisation skills(not to mention the rambos that exist out there). I find funny that you preview that the number of officers will rise because of a new "recruitment" system since what you show on the streets is what captivates people to apply. Maybe you should redirect your focus to the real reason SAPD lacks new officers.
Last and not the least: If SAPD has a low amount officers how are the cops on the street wait that in every situation that requires heavy equipment SWAT and FBI which are closed groups will have more manpower? That works IRL because you have those teams working 24/7, IG it mostly fails due to the lack of availability. 

[Bruce`]

Make sure you take your personal grudges to some other place.

I don't have any personal grudge on someone so I guess you were talking to someone else.

[Leonardo]

To the OP: This is not gonna work by rebelling and daring your superiors, throwing your claims in a provocative, challenging manner. You are not gonna convince other units to go off duty, and the decision of going to duty or not is your own personal decision and ONLY your personal decision.

Apart from the tone used in the original message, i must say I, as a FBI member, always provide heavy weaponry to police officers (including freecops, if i find them trustworthy of being equipped with those) and will continue to do so if i find the situation appropriated to it. The measure is some last resort to match the firepower of criminals and should be considered.

[TinMan]

.....this is not a Cops 'n Robbers server.
P.S. I can't seem to ignore your idiotic behavior at all, are you 10 years old?

I know that it is not a cops 'n robbers server. We as SAPD need to serve and protect the citizens of Argonath and that is our motto and we need to uphold that motto. Thanks, maybe I am 10 years old.

I repeat SAPD dont have access to sniper and m4, it's restricted in the weapon equip.

What should SAPD upper command to do for a script change:
- Decide if they really want those changes.
- Talk with any HQ members to see if its approved
- If it's approved i Can update the weaponequip command.

About the initial post, i think the words should be moderated and you should at least try to talk with a upper command member coming here and making treats to SAPD is not the correct way especially because you are not even a high active member.

Thank you for pointing out the problem now hopefully now it gets fixed. No threats here just trying to get my point across as simply as possible. The topic says it all really. All I need to hear is whether this changes or not other than that there shouldn't be much discussion left. SAPD should have access to heavy fire weaponry because SWAT or FBI is not always available for major incidents and is up to the command of SAPD to take charge of the situation. I am going to leave something positive this time because I could had said this negatively. Here it goes "If the SAPD command are able to lead with the proper tools or equipment for major incidents then we will be successful and you will never here me again." Now don't get me wrong the SAPD can lead that is your job and that is what high command is here to do. The problem I am discussing is the equipment/tools and has no correlations between a cops N robbers server or anything like that. This is what we do on a day to day basis as policemen. Anyway, it is basically working on a farm handing us shovels to til up lets say a 100 acres of land, but instead you could had issued us all combines and it would had been completely effectively in no time. With us being issued shovels some of us will faint, quit on the job, or continue slaving and make zero progress. On a metaphorically factor I see us doing those last three I said. You can be out there directing orders when were all using shovels but what good does that do. But instead we get the combine and get the job effectively while you are directing orders and the mission would be complete. So in prospective of the weapon situation. You hand us SMG/Shotgun to a situation that requires M4/Sniper. We all die because we could not effectively engage the enemy. You hand us M4/Sniper. We stand a chance against the enemy knowing we have held a fight to the best of our ability winning or losing. You see, the problem for me is not about winning every time, but what haunts me the most is that we didn't put all effort into the situation and we lost because something wasn't changed or something was missing that could had been avoided. Along time ago, SAPD use to be able to equip themselves with heavy fire power and that needs to be reverted back. If we don't revert back, all we are going to be is failures. Lets make SAPD great again.       

We are not trained enough for this kinda of weapons easy as that..........

Just because you are in SWAT does not mean you are good or the best and if you are not part of a group (SWAT) does not mean you are lacking experience. The terrorists/criminals who we are fighting don't have this swat training either. Anybody can shoot a weapon effectively. It is not hard. You point, aim, shoot, take cover, and advance or fall back when appropriate. So tell me what a basic officer needs in order to be so called "trained."

P.s. Also know that it is a game and I think we need to take that into account.

In conclusion, it is not about the rank on the shoulder or how many decorations on your chest if we don't handle this situation as a big WHOLE group appropriately then we will be overturned.

[Webster]

Just because you are in SWAT does not mean you are good or the best and if you are not part of a group (SWAT) does not mean you are lacking experience. The terrorists/criminals who we are fighting don't have this swat training either. Anybody can shoot a weapon effectively. It is not hard. You point, aim, shoot, take cover, and advance or fall back when appropriate. So tell me what a basic officer needs in order to be so called "trained."

I think you misinterpreted the term 'trained'. I think what Fred was trying to say that SWAT is 'trained' to know when to use heavy artillery, depending if it's close-quarters, long-range, because as far as I know you certainly can't use a Sniper/M4 on a suspect that is assaulting you with a Desert-Eagle.

Fred is not a part of SWAT anymore and no-one implied that if you are in SWAT you are 'the best'.

You want big guns? Work your ass off and get to that point where you can actually use them