Argonath RPG Police Department

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Oliver Daniels on February 16, 2012, 20:35:40 pm

Title: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Oliver Daniels on February 16, 2012, 20:35:40 pm
There aren't a lot of people around anymore who can recall what the SAPD was like a couple of years ago, and most of those who do have either stopped caring or switched sides.

Back then we didn't have half the SAPD in a commanding position so there were a lot of 'regular' officers up and about, patrolling in regular cruisers and putting the lives of civilians first whereas these days everyone's an 'elite' officer of sorts, be it HPU, SRU or anything of the like. Quite ironically, a lot of the people resembling any sort of real officers these days are freecops, since that's basically all that they're able to do script-wise.
Us, holding a rank from Cadet to Sergeant, should be only allowed to patrol in regular cruisers and not possess any weapon heavier than the duty-issued SMG to avoid making the entire SAPD look like a bunch of trigger-happy maniacs. Roleplay should always be put before 'winning', since after all this server was founded upon the idea that people would be able to get the chance to act like someone they're not. For those of you who only care about shooting someone in the face (or back) with a combat shotgun without doing any actual beat cop work, you should resign and carry on your death squads as ARPD officers.
I know some of you are going to claim that criminals are armed to the teeth as well, but we have something they don't - infinite resources and a large supply of cops. You don't need a cannon to take your opponent down when you outnumber him 3 to 1.
I remember being part of a police organisation - the SATP, led by the recently returned Eddie Pulaski - that managed to apprehend the criminal every single time, despite us only having desert eagles and police cruisers/rangers. We did it all with teamwork and constant training, not with buffalos and /weaponequip.

Furthermore, the command staff weren't a bunch of troubled teens looking to prove themselves and justify every single one of their actions to people who have no business in it - they were people you could actually respect and look up to, even if they did appear to present themselves in an unorthodox manner at times. I'm getting sick and tired of seeing actions before thoughts from the command staff's side - people should take their time coming up with decisions and talking them over with other people (including the one receiving the punishment) to avoid a situation where the punishment simply gets revoked a couple of hours later.
I'm not saying that all of the command staff is incompetent - there are a couple of very talented and dedicated ones out there, but I solemnly believe that those who abuse their rank as soon as something doesn't go their way should be demoted to a rank where they wouldn't be a danger to others.

I cringe every time I'm patrolling with someone and they go 'criminal at X /area ID', since it blatantly shows that their only interest in this server is to chase criminals down and get their $$ without bothering to do any roleplay. I'm aware of the fact that there are criminals out there who only roll around in their NRGs blasting anyone they don't like, but that shouldn't give you the right to completely label every other orange name as a non-RPer and shoot before asking questions. As an enforcer of the law, you should ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt to everyone, be it as stressful as it may. An officer who only wishes to kill criminals would quickly get thrown into an insane asylum in real life - the point of the police is not to take lives, but to catch the ones who break the law and have them rehabilitated.
Think of yourself as a father and someone who's commited a crime as your son. If you were a good father, you would punish him when necessary but still support him despite what he's done. Your goal is to get him to change his ways, not to make it so he'd never walk again.



For those of you who are going to go "BUT DIS NOT REL LIF DIS A GAEM!!!! LOL RP IS DUM XDXDXD": do feel free to sod off.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jason J. Dilworth on February 16, 2012, 20:43:35 pm
Respect, words of pure gold. Couldn't agree with you more..
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Huntsman on February 16, 2012, 20:46:56 pm
I have to totally agree with you.

When i first joined argonath, it were no SAPD, it was ARPD , and ARPD were Freecops. I remember back then ARPD looked so professional, every freecops dream was to become one, and it wasnt easy to join ARPD back in the day either. People were honest and not rank hunting.

And these CMD Staff members who will try to give an argument that there is no favourism in SAPD- You can shove these arguments you know where. And dont try to say "You dont know anything" , because it wont work, its so obvious... A person gets accepted/reinstated and within 2 days he is already a Cpt. because he licked some higher ranked ass and sat with him in TS 24/7.

I know that most likely i will get denied due to " Shitting on CMD Staff", but tbh i dont really care no more.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Renz0 on February 16, 2012, 20:47:32 pm
Absolutely f**king yes. No need to add more, no less. You said whole problem is short way.


The thing is, when i tried to implement RP between the PD, I was a whore in many people eyes. Fortunately, there is someone who is WILLING to improve things to better. Glad to see it ;)
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ghøst on February 16, 2012, 20:49:47 pm
Max not true, that are people that trully deserve "x" rank even in few days for previous work they've done within the force that you may not be aware of so don't point that out.
And Oliver, i totally agree with you.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Nicholas Baker on February 16, 2012, 20:50:38 pm
And these CMD Staff members who will try to give an argument that there is no favourism in SAPD- You can shove these arguments you know where. And dont try to say "You dont know anything" , because it wont work, its so obvious... A person gets accepted/reinstated and within 2 days he is already a Cpt. because he licked some higher ranked ass and sat with him in TS 24/7.

Quote
I know that most likely i will get denied due to " Shitting on CMD Staff", but tbh i dont really care no more.

Most likely yes, as you're asking for it.

Remember this; Hear, see and be quiet < never f**ks you up.
Keep such opinions between your ears if you know it would get your ass kicked.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Huntsman on February 16, 2012, 20:56:09 pm
And these CMD Staff members who will try to give an argument that there is no favourism in SAPD- You can shove these arguments you know where. And dont try to say "You dont know anything" , because it wont work, its so obvious... A person gets accepted/reinstated and within 2 days he is already a Cpt. because he licked some higher ranked ass and sat with him in TS 24/7.

Quote
I know that most likely i will get denied due to " Shitting on CMD Staff", but tbh i dont really care no more.

Most likely yes, as you're asking for it.

Remember this; Hear, see and be quiet < never f**ks you up.
Keep such opinions between your ears if you know it would get your ass kicked.

Then let it be! If they're going to silence a person just because he said something against higher ranks, fine, i don't want to be part of an organisation that throws criticism to others but never accepts one against them.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Nicholas Baker on February 16, 2012, 20:57:59 pm
And these CMD Staff members who will try to give an argument that there is no favourism in SAPD- You can shove these arguments you know where. And dont try to say "You dont know anything" , because it wont work, its so obvious... A person gets accepted/reinstated and within 2 days he is already a Cpt. because he licked some higher ranked ass and sat with him in TS 24/7.

Quote
I know that most likely i will get denied due to " Shitting on CMD Staff", but tbh i dont really care no more.

Most likely yes, as you're asking for it.

Remember this; Hear, see and be quiet < never f**ks you up.
Keep such opinions between your ears if you know it would get your ass kicked.

Then let it be! If they're going to silence a person just because he said something against higher ranks, fine, i don't want to be part of an organisation that throws criticism to others but never accepts one against them.

Thats how every system works max, the world runs on that system. Y'all think you have freedom of speech and choice but you don't towards a higher person.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Renz0 on February 16, 2012, 20:58:14 pm
Keep on topic.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [R*]Pancher on February 16, 2012, 21:17:07 pm
Max, your first statement is only how you think it was done. But that's not the truth at all and also incorrect fact...

Regarding the statement that cops are using the same weaponary as the criminals and should be restricted.. We do not wish to restrict people within the SAPD to much and there for we have decided to not disallow cops from using purchased weapons from ammu nations. However we still have the basic weapon regulations as in the past and it haven't changed at all. People have been allowed to use any guns they afford to purchase..

We do also not wish to restrict people from how they wish to "Rp". I prefer the way you say Oliver by finding Role Play crimes instead of /area CRIMINALID and then pursiut the criminal.. And it's more interesting and "realistic". But we all have different things we enjoy to do in this game and therefor we are quite open on how you may RP.
Ofc you most obey server rules and afew basic guidelines as an SAPD officer has to follow and signed up for by applying..
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [R*]Pancher on February 16, 2012, 21:19:10 pm
I also wish to note that i appriciate constructive criticism and not bullshit talk.. If you come with constructive criticism i will listen and consider your statement.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ben on February 16, 2012, 21:28:51 pm
Oliver, you make a good point, and I guess it's a very good thing that you posted this.

Favouritism is a sore issue really, but honestly, it's there, and always will be there. We can do our best not to do it, but it's so hard to do without regulations set out for every fart. We don't want that either.

I also agree about punishments...you made a marvellous point there.It is better to teach someone how to be better instead of slapping them away with no real lesson learnt. For example, the popular "shitting on command" isn't a good turn of phrase. Instead, it would be better if the Command Staff sat down with the officer and spoke with them about how they should conduct themselves. All an officer things from "shitting on command" is that they cannot voice their opinions. This shouldn't be the case, and I'm sure it is not.
Like Oliver said, it is better to do a positive action than a negative one. As Pancher just said, "constructive criticism". That's important, not just towards SAPD members, but also coming from them. If constructive criticism is more useful, then that is how it should be done. Negative actions just show that the Command Staff member has lost their cool, and acted unprofessionally.

Interesting that I saw this just now...I had a suspect just say "ben is more qualified". People look up to us, so we should be professional.

Don't take this as insults, but as constructive criticisms, so ideas can be built on. I basically just rewrote what Oliver said, but it is also the opinion I hold.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Plam Knight on February 16, 2012, 21:49:20 pm
Oliver I have to admit that some of these points are true, yet you put it in a fully wrong way, instead of making a proper full with evidence and ect... statement, sending it to Pancher as you know he is fully experienced and capable to deal with it, you come here making well not whining, but close to it topic. If you see something wrong then contact straight the chief of police, after all he is the most experienced member of SAPD and the one capable to deal with this.

I have to totally agree with you.

When i first joined argonath, it were no SAPD, it was ARPD , and ARPD were Freecops. I remember back then ARPD looked so professional, every freecops dream was to become one, and it wasnt easy to join ARPD back in the day either. People were honest and not rank hunting.

And these CMD Staff members who will try to give an argument that there is no favourism in SAPD- You can shove these arguments you know where. And dont try to say "You dont know anything" , because it wont work, its so obvious... A person gets accepted/reinstated and within 2 days he is already a Cpt. because he licked some higher ranked ass and sat with him in TS 24/7.

I know that most likely i will get denied due to " Shitting on CMD Staff", but tbh i dont really care no more.

First don't try to be "smart", you talk so much about favourism, well get proofs and report other then that your argument is purly invalid.
If the person was promoted to captain, then the decision was made by chief himself, if you think you know more then the chief, please do tell us your vision of SAPD.


Keep on topic.

They are keeping it on topic, after all this topic was created to discuss and they discuss a point that Oliver gave.

Oliver, you make a good point, and I guess it's a very good thing that you posted this.

Favouritism is a sore issue really, but honestly, it's there, and always will be there. We can do our best not to do it, but it's so hard to do without regulations set out for every fart. We don't want that either.

I also agree about punishments...you made a marvellous point there.It is better to teach someone how to be better instead of slapping them away with no real lesson learnt. For example, the popular "shitting on command" isn't a good turn of phrase. Instead, it would be better if the Command Staff sat down with the officer and spoke with them about how they should conduct themselves. All an officer things from "shitting on command" is that they cannot voice their opinions. This shouldn't be the case, and I'm sure it is not.
Like Oliver said, it is better to do a positive action than a negative one. As Pancher just said, "constructive criticism". That's important, not just towards SAPD members, but also coming from them. If constructive criticism is more useful, then that is how it should be done. Negative actions just show that the Command Staff member has lost their cool, and acted unprofessionally.

Interesting that I saw this just now...I had a suspect just say "ben is more qualified". People look up to us, so we should be professional.

Don't take this as insults, but as constructive criticisms, so ideas can be built on. I basically just rewrote what Oliver said, but it is also the opinion I hold.

How is this a insult, a SAPD veteran sharing his vision ? But in order to share a vision, you must have attempted to fix this somehow before it, I see no attempts of it, which makes this topic only words but no actions.

You all talk about changes and how we should improve, well improve, you all talk how SAPD CMD is that and that... Well why are you waiting for us to push you towards doing something better ? For the past several months I have been back, I see everyone posting SAPD is that and that, while they are SAPD themselv, what do you do to fix it, you know very good that SAPD CMD is for guidance, what you do on the field comes from within you.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jason J. Dilworth on February 16, 2012, 22:07:49 pm
You all talk about changes and how we should improve, well improve, you all talk how SAPD CMD is that and that... Well why are you waiting for us to push you towards doing something better ? For the past several months I have been back, I see everyone posting SAPD is that and that, while they are SAPD themselv, what do you do to fix it, you know very good that SAPD CMD is for guidance, what you do on the field comes from within you.
The SAPD CMD should show the SAPD officers a good example how to roleplay in situations, remember you as a high ranked officer set example for all the officers, you said it right "SAPD CMD is for guidance" - what I've seen the last few days from some of the CMD staff is a huge lack of roleplaying skill, they're just unable to roleplay or they don't think it's necessary. That might be one of the reasons why all the other officers won't bother themselves to roleplay, why should they, if their superiors don't.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Plam Knight on February 16, 2012, 22:14:24 pm
You all talk about changes and how we should improve, well improve, you all talk how SAPD CMD is that and that... Well why are you waiting for us to push you towards doing something better ? For the past several months I have been back, I see everyone posting SAPD is that and that, while they are SAPD themselv, what do you do to fix it, you know very good that SAPD CMD is for guidance, what you do on the field comes from within you.
The SAPD CMD should show the SAPD officers a good example how to roleplay in situations, remember you as a high ranked officer set example for all the officers, you said it right "SAPD CMD is for guidance" - what I've seen the last few days from some of the CMD staff is a huge lack of roleplaying skill, they're just unable to roleplay or they don't think it's necessary. That might be one of the reasons why all the other officers won't bother themselves to roleplay, why should they, if their superiors don't.

Again if you don't belive SAPD CMD are capable to be example, you report straight to the chief and I am fully certain he will investigate it.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jason J. Dilworth on February 16, 2012, 22:18:43 pm
You all talk about changes and how we should improve, well improve, you all talk how SAPD CMD is that and that... Well why are you waiting for us to push you towards doing something better ? For the past several months I have been back, I see everyone posting SAPD is that and that, while they are SAPD themselv, what do you do to fix it, you know very good that SAPD CMD is for guidance, what you do on the field comes from within you.
The SAPD CMD should show the SAPD officers a good example how to roleplay in situations, remember you as a high ranked officer set example for all the officers, you said it right "SAPD CMD is for guidance" - what I've seen the last few days from some of the CMD staff is a huge lack of roleplaying skill, they're just unable to roleplay or they don't think it's necessary. That might be one of the reasons why all the other officers won't bother themselves to roleplay, why should they, if their superiors don't.

Again if you don't belive SAPD CMD are not capable to be example, you report straight to the chief and I am fully certain he will investigate it.
Well, I've already done that and you saw it also.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: JackB on February 16, 2012, 22:24:35 pm
Again if you don't belive SAPD CMD are capable to be example, you report straight to the chief and I am fully certain he will investigate it.

Report a CMD staff, for "lack of RP skill" ?

- 1st : If someone do this, he will get a "You have 24 hours to show evidences, or get punishment for spreading false rumors on CMD staff"
- 2nd : How do you want to proove it. You can't.
- 3rd : It's.. almost... a stupid report... Or in my opinion at least.

Anyway. I don't think it's the origin of the "problem".
A manhunt (of CMD staff) won't resolve this. It's a matter of everyone's daily actions.

I'd like to say also :

But in order to share a vision, you must have attempted to fix this somehow before it, I see no attempts of it, which makes this topic only words but no actions.

Before solving a situation, you must point it out.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Julio. on February 16, 2012, 22:25:47 pm
I know very little about the current method of joining the SAPD, trainingwise etc.

But seeing the standard, and attitude of some officers really highlights to me that it cannot be difficult at all.

I did 9 sessions, current Cadets do fewer (if I'm correct), I never did anything practical, which made the exam very easy, so if it's the same, that's not very good.

Cadets/Applicants should be tested on their practical knowledge and attitude, not just answering a few questions.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: JackB on February 16, 2012, 22:27:08 pm
Cadets/Applicants should be tested on their practical knowledge and attitude, not just answering a few questions.

I canno't agree more with you.

It's exactly how it should be. But.. Look... There's currently 4 pages of applications...
Maybe like, 50+ applicants. How to test them all...

Maybe that recommandations (from SAPD members) should be taken very seriously.
Like, a minimum of X recommandations, to be accepted.
That could be a solution.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ben on February 16, 2012, 22:30:01 pm
@ Plam:

I seem to have got into this rut...people think I am insulting them, so I like to confirm I am not.
If you look at my shirt reports/operations, both in the current ACS and in the old DPD boards/topics, you'll see that I and others have done what we can. That is, adopting ARPD Officers, making trainings, making organised patrols, and more.
However (and this might go quite badly) we cannot adopt Command members. We look up to them, and so they must act as the best of us all the time when on duty. Everything we do...we should be seeing from them, day in, day out.

We cannot change SAPD Command in the way we help ARPD Officers and each other...we can't tell you what to do, and we live in fear of getting punished if we turn round and say SAPD Command is wrong.

I have no objections with what most of us Officers do on the field...my post is mainly based at the attitude of Command members when an Officer does do something wrong. As an example (not to be taken as something which has happened!):

- Scenario 1 - Captain Plam Knight sees Jerome driving a Buffalo around. He PM's him with "Why are you in a buffalo?". Jerome responds, "I am patrolling sir." Plam says "Well, you can't. Get out the Buffalo, now". Jerome says "I don't understand, why?". Plam replies with "Do I need to give you a reason? I'm Command.". Jerome says "Well...it would be nice to have a reason.". Plam says "Go read what the forum says". Jerome says "Why can't you tell me? You know, and I don't. Tell me.". Plam responds with a 6hour copban for Jerome, reason: Shitting and ignoring Command.

- Scenario 2 - Captain Plam Knight sees Jerome driving a Buffalo around. He PM's him with "Why are you in a buffalo?". Jerome responds "I am patrolling sir". Plam says "Well, under the new regulations you can only use Buffalos during specific circumstances, such as a heavily armed suspect fleeing on an NRG". Jerome responds with "Alright sir, I'll return the Buffalo and grab a PD car".

In either situation, no other non-Command member would like to intervene, as Plam is a Captain. In Scenario 2, a constructive response was taken, and the situation was resolved. Scenario 1 ended badly, as the negative approach was taken.

Again, please take this as general constructive criticism. Names given above were not involved in such a scenario (I hope), and the scenario was invented by myself as an example. Now, I hope you understand what I mean.
Reiterating the point that non-Command members cannot do much about this...
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Pepper on February 16, 2012, 22:45:38 pm
Boy do I miss the old days. I die a little inside every time someone says ''SUxx at xxxxxx". Proud to say 95% of all my cop duty is traffic violations.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Plam Knight on February 16, 2012, 22:52:49 pm
Again if you don't belive SAPD CMD are capable to be example, you report straight to the chief and I am fully certain he will investigate it.

Report a CMD staff, for "lack of RP skill" ?

- 1st : If someone do this, he will get a "You have 24 hours to show evidences, or get punishment for spreading false rumors on CMD staff"
- 2nd : How do you want to proove it. You can't.
- 3rd : It's.. almost... a stupid report... Or in my opinion at least.

Anyway. I don't think it's the origin of the "problem".
A manhunt (of CMD staff) won't resolve this. It's a matter of everyone's daily actions.

I'd like to say also :

But in order to share a vision, you must have attempted to fix this somehow before it, I see no attempts of it, which makes this topic only words but no actions.

Before solving a situation, you must point it out.

No they want to report certain part of the CMD for "Failing to provide proper example to our officers", which for a command stuff is quite a offense.

I know very little about the current method of joining the SAPD, trainingwise etc.

But seeing the standard, and attitude of some officers really highlights to me that it cannot be difficult at all.

I did 9 sessions, current Cadets do fewer (if I'm correct), I never did anything practical, which made the exam very easy, so if it's the same, that's not very good.

Cadets/Applicants should be tested on their practical knowledge and attitude, not just answering a few questions.

Currently the academy is being updated, give us sometime to launch it fully and then please do give us your observations.

@ Plam:

I seem to have got into this rut...people think I am insulting them, so I like to confirm I am not.
If you look at my shirt reports/operations, both in the current ACS and in the old DPD boards/topics, you'll see that I and others have done what we can. That is, adopting ARPD Officers, making trainings, making organised patrols, and more.
However (and this might go quite badly) we cannot adopt Command members. We look up to them, and so they must act as the best of us all the time when on duty. Everything we do...we should be seeing from them, day in, day out.

We cannot change SAPD Command in the way we help ARPD Officers and each other...we can't tell you what to do, and we live in fear of getting punished if we turn round and say SAPD Command is wrong.

I have no objections with what most of us Officers do on the field...my post is mainly based at the attitude of Command members when an Officer does do something wrong. As an example (not to be taken as something which has happened!):

- Scenario 1 - Captain Plam Knight sees Jerome driving a Buffalo around. He PM's him with "Why are you in a buffalo?". Jerome responds, "I am patrolling sir." Plam says "Well, you can't. Get out the Buffalo, now". Jerome says "I don't understand, why?". Plam replies with "Do I need to give you a reason? I'm Command.". Jerome says "Well...it would be nice to have a reason.". Plam says "Go read what the forum says". Jerome says "Why can't you tell me? You know, and I don't. Tell me.". Plam responds with a 6hour copban for Jerome, reason: Shitting and ignoring Command.

- Scenario 2 - Captain Plam Knight sees Jerome driving a Buffalo around. He PM's him with "Why are you in a buffalo?". Jerome responds "I am patrolling sir". Plam says "Well, under the new regulations you can only use Buffalos during specific circumstances, such as a heavily armed suspect fleeing on an NRG". Jerome responds with "Alright sir, I'll return the Buffalo and grab a PD car".

In either situation, no other non-Command member would like to intervene, as Plam is a Captain. In Scenario 2, a constructive response was taken, and the situation was resolved. Scenario 1 ended badly, as the negative approach was taken.

Again, please take this as general constructive criticism. Names given above were not involved in such a scenario (I hope), and the scenario was invented by myself as an example. Now, I hope you understand what I mean.
Reiterating the point that non-Command members cannot do much about this...

Again this is somewhat of a wrong way to perform your command work, but there is another case there as well Ben, when the command staff is being quite kind, understanding and yet the officer practically flames him in the face, because he thinks he is the one and only.

Boy do I miss the old days. I die a little inside every time someone says ''SUxx at xxxxxx". Proud to say 95% of all my cop duty is traffic violations.

We all miss some parts of the old days, but consider that its not just SAPD changing, its the whole server changing and the best thing we can do is adapt and progress. We will never be able to stay on the same level at any point of it.

By the way that will be my last post for tonight and I will gladly answer more questions tomorow.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ben on February 16, 2012, 23:02:06 pm
By the way that will be my last post for tonight and I will gladly answer more questions tomorow.
Alright, I'll pose my point so people can think about it anyway.

@the reply aimed at me:
My point entirely. Command should always aim to be acting like in the second scenario.

To your point about when the officer flames "because he thinks he is the one and only and he is the most special.":
- There should me a more in-depth investigation. In this case, I would still not suggest a straight-off copban. Try and get the officer to calm down, and ask why he/she is flaming in the way they are. People often do not think straight when they are upset...or indeed think they are going to be fired/copbanned anyway. In this case, I'd calm the officer down, and avoid the worst case scenario...because if it escalates, that person may end up with a ban to their name. Not the command members fault, but if it can be avoided, it should be...even if you are in the right as a command member. The thing taught in the academy about driving. "If you crash, then you failed to do all you could to stop it happening". If you consider this metaphorically, the point can be translated into a situation like you have given.
As Command, you're expected to be cool-headed. "Crisis"s are not too difficult to sort out of approached correctly. Much more can be learnt from getting the officer to calm down, then speaking to them as a person, rather than just a superior.

A little off-topic, but as Anton Chekhov said "Any idiot can handle a crisis, it's this day to day living which wears you out". I hope the post has given something for people to dwell on.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Oliver Daniels on February 16, 2012, 23:05:30 pm
Oliver I have to admit that some of these points are true, yet you put it in a fully wrong way, instead of making a proper full with evidence and ect... statement, sending it to Pancher as you know he is fully experienced and capable to deal with it, you come here making well not whining, but close to it topic. If you see something wrong then contact straight the chief of police, after all he is the most experienced member of SAPD and the one capable to deal with this.

The point isn't to send a letter of complaint to the head of the SAPD, but to make the voices of multiple officer heard. It's nothing to be "dealt with", really, since as Pancher pointed out, being a bad roleplayer is not against the rules.
My post was meant to show my opinion about a popular SAPD conduct these days: A couple of officers roll onto the screen with combat shotguns, blast the suspect to smithereens and take off as quickly as they arrived.

what do you do to fix it, you know very good that SAPD CMD is for guidance, what you do on the field comes from within you.

It isn't really helping when SAPD command staff members are rolling around in deathsquads as well and promoting people who do the same.
I've preached about my views on most of my patrols and haven't really received any complaints and I strongly urge anyone looking to enlighten others to be a good example. Try not to get into meaningless fights and instead use non-offensive language when you need to express your concern.



On the topic of SAPD applicants:

Making the entrance exam as hard as possible isn't really an answer, seeing as we got a lot of good officers back in the day despire the exam being piss-easy. The thing with applicants is that they're usually the ones with the most zeal, with the most ambition since they're striving to become accepted as proper officers and to be seen as such by their peers. As soon as they get their officer badge, the zeal dies down by quite a bit. However, making them wait for months upon months will simply make it seem like they're not wanted and like they're being purposely ignored.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jonny O'Sullivan on February 16, 2012, 23:17:57 pm
I know very little about the current method of joining the SAPD, trainingwise etc.

But seeing the standard, and attitude of some officers really highlights to me that it cannot be difficult at all.

I did 9 sessions, current Cadets do fewer (if I'm correct), I never did anything practical, which made the exam very easy, so if it's the same, that's not very good.

Cadets/Applicants should be tested on their practical knowledge and attitude, not just answering a few questions.

To be honest the Academy is nothing special and only has a little affect on cadets. If you look back in the days of when I first joined SAPD in 2008 we didn't have to take 9 sessions or whatever. All we had to do was give the meanings of a few codes and drive from location to location... That was all. With that, the quality of Officers back then was 100 times better than what they are now with this academy system.

Therefore, I feel that the Academy has little influence on the quality of officers today and the thing that influences Cadets the MOST is how SAPD Officers and above act in game. This theory has been proven by what I mentioned above.

Currently the academy is being updated, give us sometime to launch it fully and then please do give us your observations.

In my opinion its not the Academy that needs an update it the actual members of SAPD themselves.

As Oliver said in the first post all people are focused on now is killing suspects. They honestly don't give a shit about roleplaying, all they do it drive around in their cute fast cars typing /area on all the suspects them shooting them with whatever they can in order to kill them as quick as possible.

From the start of SAPD to around early 2010 there was no need for all these fast cars and heavy weaponry, all we had was regular SAPD equipment and team work.

"Need back up on suspect in a Buffalo"..."No problem, we'll set up a road block nearby"

That's how it use to be.

SWAT did what it was meant to do. Special situations in which heavy backup was needed, be it barricaded suspects, kidnappings, etc.. They did not run around after suspects in pretty blue cars leaning out of the windows with M4s.

So in conclusion to all of this, I think everyone, including command staff, need to fix their attitude towards police work and focus on improving their own situation and the people around them instead of focussing on killing suspects without including any roleplay what so ever and saying "f**k it, everyone else is doing this so why can't I?".

Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Chief J. Schappell on February 16, 2012, 23:50:47 pm
Very well said in your first post Oliver. I remember our SATP days as well, and I must admit that it served as a great example of what SAPD once was in it's prime back then. Even being able to stop other cops heavily combated the issue with speeding civilians and officers for quite some time.

@Pancher: I must admit myself, I highly appreciate you being open to the constructive criticism so long as no flaming/****-talking is involved. It's a wonderful sign for SAPD's future when it's leadership is willing to hear from it's users in such a way that they feel they can be honest with their feelings over the organization. You have my respect for that.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jcstodds on February 17, 2012, 00:13:34 am
Lead by example.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [Rstar]Vince on February 17, 2012, 03:05:50 am
Lead by example.



If we want to go back in the day, we can go back in the day.

Back in the day those in command lead by example. When I applied to join the SAPD it was honor to patrol with those in dark blue, and even more so a captain or above. Back then Luca was Chief at the time, with other high ranks being Hank (who you all know), Decey, Nicholas Angel, etc. who were all the time ingame patrolling with regular officers and leading situations...leading by example. It made you want to become apart of the SAPD; it portrayed an example that one would not want to join SAPD and get the dark blue name to be better than others, but to be on the same level as those who already had it.

You seen command staff who were active ingame, acted professional, and had motivation to lead its members. It is still to this day lead by example, but the example being inactive, unprofessional "command" staff who fight among themselves and lead in a BAD manner.. so when new cops see command staff who do nothing, and taught by the "academy" which seems to just want to get to its next applicant it is hard to lead by an example, a good example.

I think a major aspect of it trickling down to the officers comes down to the fact of how you became apart of SAPD back then. After you were accepted as a Cadet you studied, and then had to take training from a Captain (who were in charge of testing cadets). This allowed for more communication between the SAPD as a whole, and allowed for those higher up to lead by example.. example being showing cadets who the command staff is, while simply having a closer-knit relationship between members and command.


I hate to be the one criticizing, and never thought I would be. I would love to help, if only I had that motivation which I feel is necessary to make any sort of impact at all.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Joseph_Allen on February 17, 2012, 06:03:56 am
If we want to go back in the day, we can go back in the day.

This is easier said than done because:

There aren't a lot of people around anymore who can recall what the SAPD was like a couple of years ago, and most of those who do have either stopped caring or switched sides.

To be honest, I'm getting a bit tired of the whole "good old days" talk. Maybe it's because I have something against being compared to my predecessors or maybe it's because I'm one of the many who weren't there during the SAPD's "golden years". We get it; We weren't there when you guys were and we never got to experience what you guys have gone through.

One thing I can think of is, indeed, to bring back the good old days. Not only that, however, but to build upon it in order to create something better. Maybe Oliver and the other veterans could share their wisdom on the rest of us and combine it with the good aspects of today's SAPD? (As was stated in past posts, attempts have already been made but not widely acknowledged.)


My post was meant to show my opinion about a popular SAPD conduct these days: A couple of Officers roll onto the screen with Combat shotguns, blast the suspect to smithereens and take off as quickly as they arrived.

I must admit that I'm guilty of this from time-to-time, only replace the Combats with D Eagles and SMGs. Mostly it's suspects in NRGs and other fast cars, heavily armed at times. It's really surprising how many people would rather get into a shootout than be pulled over for something as simple as speeding or driving recklessly. The times I do pull over people and they comply (bless their souls), I just give 'em a warning and watch them go on their merry way.

I hate to be the one criticizing, and never thought I would be. I would love to help, if only I had that motivation which I feel is necessary to make any sort of impact at all.

The first step to curing a disease is diagnosis and medicine, no matter how bitter it is, will cure what ails you if applied properly.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 17, 2012, 06:24:19 am
A person gets accepted/reinstated and within 2 days he is already a Cpt. because he licked some higher ranked ass and sat with him in TS 24/7.

I know that most likely i will get denied due to " Shitting on CMD Staff", but tbh i dont really care no more.

Oh the irony where you come with these words.. Seriously, look at yourself before you talk.
And don't tell me "freedom speech" and such, because you are going off the limits.



I have personnaly implemented a Duty Violation section for the SAPD CMD to record violation files.
The violation records will consist the following;

Speeding when not reacting to a crime.
Reckless driving.
Driving on pavements (sidewalks).
Driving on wrong side of road without due cause.
Abuse of police siren when not required.
Obstructing traffic without cause.
Shooting standing still suspect
Driving a non marked vehicle
Exceeding weapon usage
Disgusting behaviour
... and more.


If you are guilty of such violation, you will be taken to the Chief's office and we will discuss it there RPly'd instead of the easy punishing way.



Now, I'm working in some particular areas in the SAPD in order to improve it in a positive way together with Pancher and the command staff. We have appropriately around 90+ members within the SAPD which is a pretty high rate.

Academy is currently developing new proposals in order to improve it. We are focusing on making more practical sessions than theoretical so that there is a movement made. I have also restricted the pursuit vehicles use in order to cease the arguments made in the ARPD.



The only thing non of you have done is, contact me or Pancher of a SAPD CMD member doing something wrong. But the easy way most people take it is making a topic which causes a argument. You are free to suggest and propose, but do not point out something which you do not know is true or false.
We are doing our best in order to fully stable the department in a good shape, yet i must admit there are a few particular areas in the SAPD which still have some fault. Which is why I'm giving my time in solving some stuff up step by step.

Words can be described, even with arguments. But the actions/implement-ions  done? Way harder with a department of 90 members+/-
I have no problems in suggestions and opinions, I am happy to read them and give my time in order to process them to make a better view for yourself which i give my effort. But don't forget, i am a full time working Deputy Chief which means i may not respond at times where i am working in something which is related in developing the SAPD.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Chief J. Schappell on February 17, 2012, 06:59:55 am
One thing I can think of is, indeed, to bring back the good old days. Not only that, however, but to build upon it in order to create something better. Maybe Oliver and the other veterans could share their wisdom on the rest of us and combine it with the good aspects of today's SAPD? (As was stated in past posts, attempts have already been made but not widely acknowledged.)
The problem is to get back to that point would take a server-wide, if not community-wide, change in attitude and how things are done to get back there. A lot has changed in Argo over the last couple years, people included.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Oliver Daniels on February 17, 2012, 07:12:15 am
f you are guilty of such violation, you will be taken to the Chief's office and we will discuss it there RPly'd instead of the easy punishing way.
I can't help but take this statement with a grain of salt, as I've witnessed a "Roleplay" discussion with high-ranks - In the chief's office in LSPD, with the one investigating paying little to no attention to you and instead talking about it with his buddies on TS/cbradio.

Academy is currently developing new proposals in order to improve it. We are focusing on making more practical sessions than theoretical so that there is a movement made.
I got my badge after three days and my final exam consisted of driving captain Flameman from point A to point B, saying what 10-4 means and shooting some posts near Fort Carson. Since I was seen to be doing a good job as a freecop, I was brought into the force extremely quickly and ended up doing a lot of work as soon as I received my badge.
The academy is supposed to weed out the sloths and train the unprepared, but what the academy has become is 'Wait 5 days to do a session, then wait 2 days to do another one'. If someone's ready to become an officer and is putting in excellent work, he shouldn't be forced to sit on his ass for days just so he can do a session an infant could do.


The only thing non of you have done is, contact me or Pancher of a SAPD CMD member doing something wrong. But the easy way most people take it is making a topic which causes a argument. You are free to suggest and propose, but do not point out something which you do not know is true or false.
There seems to be this notion of 'go to the chief when you don't like something' going around - any fool knows that to change a country, you have to rouse the masses, with it creating pressure on the government.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 17, 2012, 07:28:19 am
One other thing is, lets just say all of you guys are imaginary SAPD Chiefs. How are you going to bring the 'old' days? I'm am not quite sure what 'old' days you are talking about. I don't even get how 'old' days relate to anything to the future. Because either way, our job is to serve and protect. Not just some 'old' days thing you guys were in with your friends and such. Because guess what, every single thing in life changes. Everything slightly changes for more interest and movement.

'Old days' ..........

Focus on the future, plans are welcomed.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: SeanC on February 17, 2012, 07:50:33 am
Time changes, sure, the old days might be great but nothing last forever and it surely didn't.
The academy, command staff, departments were different back then, so it is now.

Even if we go back to the old days, honestly, there isn't many old players around so it doesn't matter and maybe there is some but activity? nah.
Things changed inside SAPD, trying to move back to what it was would be hard and requires a lot of work and not all of us knows how it works.

I have to agree with what Paul stated above. I enjoy the way SAPD is right now, I wouldn't mind changes in the future to a new system but going back to the old system are just repeating the same thing.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Chief J. Schappell on February 17, 2012, 07:56:02 am
One other thing is, lets just say all of you guys are imaginary SAPD Chiefs. How are you going to bring the 'old' days? I'm am not quite sure what 'old' days you are talking about. I don't even get how 'old' days relate to anything to the future. Because either way, our job is to serve and protect. Not just some 'old' days thing you guys were in with your friends and such. Because guess what, every single thing in life changes. Everything slightly changes for more interest and movement.

'Old days' ..........

Focus on the future, plans are welcomed.
It's not so much what we RP that is seen as the old days as it is how we RP'ed it, in a sense. I know for some who weren't around at the time it doesn't seem to make much sense, but even with Argo not being as advanced as it was at that time, things were still pretty amazing in comparison. It's not really anyone's fault...things just changed over time, especially with the loss of some great former players who had unique ideas that made the old days seem so much alive and well. We can bring that back fairly easily, but right now the community is lacking unity in how to do that...and in some cases, there are users that don't have a clue what it is and just don't care enough to even try it out. I know everyone isn't this way, but there are a few who are, and it makes it that much more difficult.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 17, 2012, 08:14:08 am
One other thing is, lets just say all of you guys are imaginary SAPD Chiefs. How are you going to bring the 'old' days? I'm am not quite sure what 'old' days you are talking about. I don't even get how 'old' days relate to anything to the future. Because either way, our job is to serve and protect. Not just some 'old' days thing you guys were in with your friends and such. Because guess what, every single thing in life changes. Everything slightly changes for more interest and movement.

'Old days' ..........

Focus on the future, plans are welcomed.
It's not so much what we RP that is seen as the old days as it is how we RP'ed it, in a sense. I know for some who weren't around at the time it doesn't seem to make much sense, but even with Argo not being as advanced as it was at that time, things were still pretty amazing in comparison. It's not really anyone's fault...things just changed over time, especially with the loss of some great former players who had unique ideas that made the old days seem so much alive and well. We can bring that back fairly easily, but right now the community is lacking unity in how to do that...and in some cases, there are users that don't have a clue what it is and just don't care enough to even try it out. I know everyone isn't this way, but there are a few who are, and it makes it that much more difficult.

Roleplay is being produced and is being worked on by the SAPD Command staff. However, i do not understand any other requests from the 'olden days' whilst we bring other techniques so others enjoy them. We do not want the SAPD to be fully strict, but fun. I can already see those who expect SAPD to be fully professional and strict such as real life, which is why such ideas are denied...

If anyone thinks a SAPD is failing to RP something properly, brief them and guide them, no matter who you are. Don't expect SAPD members to be fully acknowledged just because they passed the SAPD Academy, no one is perfect.....
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Huntsman on February 17, 2012, 09:01:33 am
A person gets accepted/reinstated and within 2 days he is already a Cpt. because he licked some higher ranked ass and sat with him in TS 24/7.

I know that most likely i will get denied due to " Shitting on CMD Staff", but tbh i dont really care no more.

Oh the irony where you come with these words.. Seriously, look at yourself before you talk.
And don't tell me "freedom speech" and such, because you are going off the limits.



I have personnaly implemented a Duty Violation section for the SAPD CMD to record violation files.
The violation records will consist the following;

Speeding when not reacting to a crime.
Reckless driving.
Driving on pavements (sidewalks).
Driving on wrong side of road without due cause.
Abuse of police siren when not required.
Obstructing traffic without cause.
Shooting standing still suspect
Driving a non marked vehicle
Exceeding weapon usage
Disgusting behaviour
... and more.


If you are guilty of such violation, you will be taken to the Chief's office and we will discuss it there RPly'd instead of the easy punishing way.



Now, I'm working in some particular areas in the SAPD in order to improve it in a positive way together with Pancher and the command staff. We have appropriately around 90+ members within the SAPD which is a pretty high rate.

Academy is currently developing new proposals in order to improve it. We are focusing on making more practical sessions than theoretical so that there is a movement made. I have also restricted the pursuit vehicles use in order to cease the arguments made in the ARPD.



The only thing non of you have done is, contact me or Pancher of a SAPD CMD member doing something wrong. But the easy way most people take it is making a topic which causes a argument. You are free to suggest and propose, but do not point out something which you do not know is true or false.
We are doing our best in order to fully stable the department in a good shape, yet i must admit there are a few particular areas in the SAPD which still have some fault. Which is why I'm giving my time in solving some stuff up step by step.

Words can be described, even with arguments. But the actions/implement-ions  done? Way harder with a department of 90 members+/-
I have no problems in suggestions and opinions, I am happy to read them and give my time in order to process them to make a better view for yourself which i give my effort. But don't forget, i am a full time working Deputy Chief which means i may not respond at times where i am working in something which is related in developing the SAPD.

The example i given was not directed to anyone Paul, it was simply an non existing example to proove how things go these days.
And that i do not know nothing is a total bs. I once had a very close friend from SAPD CMD staff, which name i will not specify, and as he said "If you ever get accepted into SAPD, go and patrol with some high ranks and you'll get promotions like crazy" . And it was almost true, sadly i never aimed to patrol with high ranks.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Fred on February 17, 2012, 09:02:42 am
Respect, words of pure gold. Couldn't agree with you more..

Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jcstodds on February 17, 2012, 09:48:30 am
One other thing is, lets just say all of you guys are imaginary SAPD Chiefs. How are you going to bring the 'old' days? I'm am not quite sure what 'old' days you are talking about. I don't even get how 'old' days relate to anything to the future. Because either way, our job is to serve and protect. Not just some 'old' days thing you guys were in with your friends and such. Because guess what, every single thing in life changes. Everything slightly changes for more interest and movement.

'Old days' ..........

Focus on the future, plans are welcomed.
  Unfortunately Paul there is a kind of veteran syndrome where those who play for a long time grow up, become a little more mature and a little tired of the game. This is why they talk rubbish about "the old days", which was just as a teenager discovering Argonath for the first time, everything new and exciting with more imagination. 
  In the older generation, they will tell you about the good old days of nintendo and sega, or even the good old days without PC games... same you will find here.
  If players are still missing the good old days, its because you have been growing up and playing for so long, it starts to get boring doing the same thing over and over (which most SAPD do, thank god CMD changes SAPD now and again).

  RP has not decreased in quality or quantity. If you go looking for all the negatives, of course you will find. Only those who go around saying "bad RP" are the ones who do f**k all to show players what good RP is.

One other thing is, lets just say all of you guys are imaginary SAPD Chiefs. How are you going to bring the 'old' days? I'm am not quite sure what 'old' days you are talking about. I don't even get how 'old' days relate to anything to the future. Because either way, our job is to serve and protect. Not just some 'old' days thing you guys were in with your friends and such. Because guess what, every single thing in life changes. Everything slightly changes for more interest and movement.

'Old days' ..........

Focus on the future, plans are welcomed.
It's not so much what we RP that is seen as the old days as it is how we RP'ed it, in a sense. I know for some who weren't around at the time it doesn't seem to make much sense, but even with Argo not being as advanced as it was at that time, things were still pretty amazing in comparison. It's not really anyone's fault...things just changed over time, especially with the loss of some great former players who had unique ideas that made the old days seem so much alive and well. We can bring that back fairly easily, but right now the community is lacking unity in how to do that...and in some cases, there are users that don't have a clue what it is and just don't care enough to even try it out. I know everyone isn't this way, but there are a few who are, and it makes it that much more difficult.
  Which is why this is complete bullshit. At least for SA:MP anyway. Read up and think about it yourself before you come up with some essay reply.

Otherwise: you want improvement? The only players I saw on the forums willing to put some effort into it, is command staff and some ARPD cops like the BCSD.

You do not need rank to change anything. All you need is....


LEAD BY EXAMPLE

And others will follow.



ONe thing I do agree on though - Academy is WAY too long a process. Seen a ARPD cop with good RP skills? INVITE THEM TO CADET IMMEDIATELY. Do not give a crap if they learn SAPD protocals. They will learn this through experience as cadets whilst patrolling with SAPD.

  Do not make them sit in the waiting room for weeks, they will be too bored and tired by the time they enter the PD.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 17, 2012, 09:55:43 am
Good job Jcstoods, you described it all in addition to my main first post. I just need to understand what everyone needs and i will give my effort... I have attempted to interest everyone with something which makes them entertained but there is always some people who think they are not entertained enough because they bring up some things such as 'old days'. We offer RP opportunities via our special departments.

I personally put Reece and Matrixbob up there because they are to give some entertainment and opportunities to others. They will lead others by example like the other command members do.

If you wanna roleplay being a Sheriff and want to be drunk in the rusty golden roads - ACS/DPD is your option
If you wanna roleplay being a Los Angeles city cop as per normal cops role in the clean spotless roads - LSPD is your option
If you wanna roleplay being a Chicago sort of person and want to be in some sort of a enlightening department with amazing streets - SFPD is your choice
If you wanna roleplay being a Las Vegas sort of person such as a semi-sheriff or a professional person in the strips and casinos with highways nearby - LVPD is your choice

... and more! We will not give limitations within the RP

And as i said, no one is perfect. You just need to stand up.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jason J. Dilworth on February 17, 2012, 10:15:23 am
ACS is the most professional department from all of the others, dear Deputy Chief, please read the A.C.S. protocol to get an idea what ACS really is. ACS is 90% different from DPD.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 17, 2012, 10:22:05 am
ACS is the most professional department from all of the others, dear Deputy Chief, please read the A.C.S. protocol to get an idea what ACS really is. ACS is 90% different from DPD.

Depends really, some may like to be professional and some may like to act like some thing else such as a drunk Sheriff.
However, it's good to see you experiencing a professional team with others in your department in a RP initiative.

It depends how you RP apart from if they break a procedure.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Oliver Daniels on February 17, 2012, 12:09:32 pm
One other thing is, lets just say all of you guys are imaginary SAPD Chiefs. How are you going to bring the 'old' days? I'm am not quite sure what 'old' days you are talking about. I don't even get how 'old' days relate to anything to the future. Because either way, our job is to serve and protect. Not just some 'old' days thing you guys were in with your friends and such. Because guess what, every single thing in life changes. Everything slightly changes for more interest and movement.

I only used the 'old' days as an example of how cops still got the job done without possessing a huge armament of guns. I'm not saying that you should drop every new reform there's been and revert to the old ways - that has never been carried out successfully in the entire history of Man, but instead concentrate on promoting teamwork and barring regular officers from acting like they're part of an elite unit.
Jcs does have a good point, however, but behind the nostalgia goggles there's a shred of truth. While it's impossible to turn back time, it's not too late to take a few steps towards promoting realism and immersion. I've said it since I was new here - act like you would in real life, not like you were in a game.

I wouldn't be well liked as a chief as I'd completely ban any vehicles that aren't police cruisers or bikes and punish people for using combat shotguns/m4's. There would be a lot of resignations, but once the scarring's been done, the healing can begin.
Think of rambocops as cancer - it may not necessarily harm you for the first few years, but once it starts damaging your body, you're done for. It's better to blast yourself with chemo as soon as the cancer's discovered, causing you to be sick for a while but also considerably lessening the effects of cancer.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Plam Knight on February 17, 2012, 12:39:39 pm
Well what you are saying Oliver is indeed right and I can assure you that lately steps have been taken, first one was to restrict the buffalos only for pursuits. The teamwork you talk about actually is there, it comes from each department - training and organizing their officers, first to reach the skills to the point of perfection and second to be able to deal with these bad suspects, without using any heavy weapons or something different the police vehicle.

As well about these old days, I can tell you that there is 1 person in the command staff that was working in these old days and there is around 3 command staff members that were trained by veterans such as yourself. We all have these 2 words in our minds - "Old days" and belive me we all liked it back then, but its impossible to be the same, that's why we are looking forward and attempting to implement lessons from veterans like you and the enjoyment of the new generation in the same time.

I can tell you that suggestion such as your's, Jonny's, Jcs's, Vince's and etc... Are always welcome and we will always consider them, if you have good points to bring, such as some of your current ones.


A person gets accepted/reinstated and within 2 days he is already a Cpt. because he licked some higher ranked ass and sat with him in TS 24/7.

I know that most likely i will get denied due to " Shitting on CMD Staff", but tbh i dont really care no more.

Oh the irony where you come with these words.. Seriously, look at yourself before you talk.
And don't tell me "freedom speech" and such, because you are going off the limits.



I have personnaly implemented a Duty Violation section for the SAPD CMD to record violation files.
The violation records will consist the following;

Speeding when not reacting to a crime.
Reckless driving.
Driving on pavements (sidewalks).
Driving on wrong side of road without due cause.
Abuse of police siren when not required.
Obstructing traffic without cause.
Shooting standing still suspect
Driving a non marked vehicle
Exceeding weapon usage
Disgusting behaviour
... and more.


If you are guilty of such violation, you will be taken to the Chief's office and we will discuss it there RPly'd instead of the easy punishing way.



Now, I'm working in some particular areas in the SAPD in order to improve it in a positive way together with Pancher and the command staff. We have appropriately around 90+ members within the SAPD which is a pretty high rate.

Academy is currently developing new proposals in order to improve it. We are focusing on making more practical sessions than theoretical so that there is a movement made. I have also restricted the pursuit vehicles use in order to cease the arguments made in the ARPD.



The only thing non of you have done is, contact me or Pancher of a SAPD CMD member doing something wrong. But the easy way most people take it is making a topic which causes a argument. You are free to suggest and propose, but do not point out something which you do not know is true or false.
We are doing our best in order to fully stable the department in a good shape, yet i must admit there are a few particular areas in the SAPD which still have some fault. Which is why I'm giving my time in solving some stuff up step by step.

Words can be described, even with arguments. But the actions/implement-ions  done? Way harder with a department of 90 members+/-
I have no problems in suggestions and opinions, I am happy to read them and give my time in order to process them to make a better view for yourself which i give my effort. But don't forget, i am a full time working Deputy Chief which means i may not respond at times where i am working in something which is related in developing the SAPD.

The example i given was not directed to anyone Paul, it was simply an non existing example to proove how things go these days.
And that i do not know nothing is a total bs. I once had a very close friend from SAPD CMD staff, which name i will not specify, and as he said "If you ever get accepted into SAPD, go and patrol with some high ranks and you'll get promotions like crazy" . And it was almost true, sadly i never aimed to patrol with high ranks.

Now I see the reason, why your friend is no longer CMD. And you actually really don't know anything, from what I see so far its attention seeking, I advise you to stay off this topic, un till you have something proper to say.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 17, 2012, 13:15:00 pm
One other thing is, lets just say all of you guys are imaginary SAPD Chiefs. How are you going to bring the 'old' days? I'm am not quite sure what 'old' days you are talking about.

My fake re-work, documentation and announcement of the SAPD with this imaginary position in mind:-


San Andreas Police Department
To serve & protect.

"The rehabilitation of respect behind the department you serve, and the common goal of achieving a system that rewards team-work, tactics and initiative."

It has finally come to the attention of command, that our Officers have been empowered to the state where the national guard would consider the enforcement to be out of control, and a state of unannounced martial law has been effectively in place in our reign over the populace that we once stood up proud to assist and protect. Therefore from this monumental point onward, the SAPD will strive to condition itself for a better experience for both the players, and the officers.

I. The resource pool of the department.
II. The armoury and weaponry of the department.
III. The management of sub-divisions.
IV. Mandatory one-day-a-week training program.
V. Clear rank progression goals.
VI. The complete re-work of SWAT.



I. The resource pool of the department.

With effective immediately, the following management changes are to be made;


The community needs the reassurances of squad-cars patrolling their roads, unmarked vehicles are not a deterrence and they encourage poor quality vehicle handling during multiple responding cars chasing down a suspect on the run.



II. The armoury and weaponry of the department.

The Wild West has had less shots fired then the State of Argonath, and therefore the following restrictions are now in place:-




III. The management of sub-divisions.

Sub-divisions are still actively encouraged among the SAPD, how-ever private ranking systems can no longer be implemented, you must carry out the responsibilities you have been trained to undertake and not assume the mantle unless clearly ready to engage in such, with written permission from command staff. You must also present a monthly report to this public board to demonstrate that your group is providing the community with a boon, and that officers are being correctly taught under your watch.

Furthermore if you are called to purpose for regular duties away from your sub-division, you are first and foremost an SAPD officer and this always takes priority.



IV. Mandatory one-day-a-week training program.

As command has finally realized that we have such an abundance of staff eagerly ready to prove themselves, or find themselves in a more suitable position, the mandatory SAPD officer training and upkeep program has finally been realized and put to use, effective immediately, every Saturday evening at 6.00pm GMT!


This list will be updated over time and not all of it can be covered every training session, but areas will be focused upon instead - command staff can select what they think needs to be worked on, but everything needs to be covered at least once a month from each department.



V. Clear rank progression goals.

The commanding elements recognize our Officers desires to progress and show achievement, therefore the following stages have been implemented to show you just how to reach the rank of Senior Officer, and what to do if you want to move on further then that.

White Phase

1. Demonstrate basic road knowledge for your city.
2. Conduct radio communication through codes.
3. Display a continual outward respect to the community, even when it barks and bites at you.
4. Maintain good vehicle driving skills, be seen to keep to the limits.

Red Phase

1. Attend at least one month of training weekends, as talked about in IV.
2. Present the attitude of "exhaust all options" before engaging a suspect with a fire-arm. All life is to be protected. Innocent UNTIL proven guilty.
3. Demonstrate the willingness to work with a team, how-ever small, even if just for a blockade.
4. Consider the use of Teamspeak, even if just to listen to reports (optional).

Yellow Phase

1. Attend at least two months of training weekends, as talked about in IV.
2. Be seen to actively mentor new officers to the ways of the SAPD.
3. Demonstrate initiative and control blockades on your own, as shown during training.
4. Understand that all this is to your benefit, await to be approached regarding rank, do not seek it.

Blue Phase

1. Maintain the status you are now at, for you will soon be recognized as an asset to the SAPD.




VI. The complete re-work of SWAT.

Reworking SWAT in to a tactical response team, to encourage organized roleplayers crime and create a genuinely enjoyable situation for all, not a death squad that squawks insults and creates a clique. I'll leave it at that, to avoid flaming, and if you really want me to show you i'll put together a film to make it blindingly obvious - but just follow these guys around for a day and you'll see just how great they are ... at killing people.



I did that all in about 40min? I didn't even extensively research or apply trains of thought, you ask what the "old days" are? It's when people had nerve to actually be strong of character and enforce some sort of cohesive team throughout the police force, today it's really sad - and so when you hear the "old days"? That's what people are referring toward. P.S - a one month long application process? Oxford university replies quicker!
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Plam Knight on February 17, 2012, 13:20:24 pm
James really nice work there, for the 1 month you are really back, except the past 2 years and half inactive, that you were away doing something different, most of us worked here and belive me we all had fresh ideas, but boost runs out after several months, now we are trying to be reasonable and in the same time improve SAPD. I really like this fire you have there, but would it be the same if you weren't inactive for the past 2 years and half ?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 17, 2012, 13:25:27 pm
One other thing is, lets just say all of you guys are imaginary SAPD Chiefs. How are you going to bring the 'old' days? I'm am not quite sure what 'old' days you are talking about.

My fake re-work, documentation and announcement of the SAPD with this imaginary position in mind:-


San Andreas Police Department
To serve & protect.

"The rehabilitation of respect behind the department you serve, and the common goal of achieving a system that rewards team-work, tactics and initiative."

It has finally come to the attention of command, that our Officers have been empowered to the state where the national guard would consider the enforcement to be out of control, and a state of unannounced martial law has been effectively in place in our reign over the populace that we once stood up proud to assist and protect. Therefore from this monumental point onward, the SAPD will strive to condition itself for a better experience for both the players, and the officers.

I. The resource pool of the department.
II. The armoury and weaponry of the department.
III. The management of sub-divisions.
IV. Mandatory one-day-a-week training program.
V. Clear rank progression goals.
VI. The complete re-work of SWAT.



I. The resource pool of the department.

With effective immediately, the following management changes are to be made;

  • The removal of "golf carts" from the SAPD garages.
  • The removal of all but two buffalo high-speed pursuit vehicles at major SAPD headquarters.
  • The policy of returning a squad-car to the garage after use, else fines will be issued.

The community needs the reassurances of squad-cars patrolling their roads, unmarked vehicles are not a deterrence and they encourage poor quality vehicle handling during multiple responding cars chasing down a suspect on the run.



II. The armoury and weaponry of the department.

The Wild West has had less shots fired then the State of Argonath, and therefore the following restrictions are now in place:-

  • Unarmed suspects on the run cannot be fired upon, unless they have previously shot at the Officer.
  • The command /weaponequip may only be used under approval of a Lieutenant or higher, and only at major scenes.
  • The mismatched equipment that Officers have taken to wearing across the state should be checked in with a more senior officer, to see if you look presentable for the community (hats, vests, etc).



III. The management of sub-divisions.

Sub-divisions are still actively encouraged among the SAPD, how-ever private ranking systems can no longer be implemented, you must carry out the responsibilities you have been trained to undertake and not assume the mantle unless clearly ready to engage in such, with written permission from command staff. You must also present a monthly report to this public board to demonstrate that your group is providing the community with a boon, and that officers are being correctly taught under your watch.

Furthermore if you are called to purpose for regular duties away from your sub-division, you are first and foremost an SAPD officer and this always takes priority.



IV. Mandatory one-day-a-week training program.

As command has finally realized that we have such an abundance of staff eagerly ready to prove themselves, or find themselves in a more suitable position, the mandatory SAPD officer training and upkeep program has finally been realized and put to use, effective immediately, every Saturday evening at 6.00pm GMT!

  • Community policing; handling the various ethnics of the population of San Andreas.
  • Pursuits; rolling blockades in numbers when in a vehicle chase. (Be shown that you don't need a buffalo to do police work, get more pride from it).
  • Escalation drills; when to react with aggression and when not to.
  • First Response Units; find out what to do when you are all alone and first to a major situation.
  • The '4 C's'; discover what it means to - clear, cordon, control, confirm, and just how effective this simple method is to tactical policing in any situation.
  • Tactical Movement; gain insight to basic tactical movement during a shoot out or house clearence

This list will be updated over time and not all of it can be covered every training session, but areas will be focused upon instead - command staff can select what they think needs to be worked on, but everything needs to be covered at least once a month from each department.



V. Clear rank progression goals.

The commanding elements recognize our Officers desires to progress and show achievement, therefore the following stages have been implemented to show you just how to reach the rank of Senior Officer, and what to do if you want to move on further then that.

White Phase

1. Demonstrate basic road knowledge for your city.
2. Conduct radio communication through codes.
3. Display a continual outward respect to the community, even when it barks and bites at you.
4. Maintain good vehicle driving skills, be seen to keep to the limits.

Red Phase

1. Attend at least one month of training weekends, as talked about in IV.
2. Present the attitude of "exhaust all options" before engaging a suspect with a fire-arm. All life is to be protected. Innocent UNTIL proven guilty.
3. Demonstrate the willingness to work with a team, how-ever small, even if just for a blockade.
4. Consider the use of Teamspeak, even if just to listen to reports (optional).

Yellow Phase

1. Attend at least two months of training weekends, as talked about in IV.
2. Be seen to actively mentor new officers to the ways of the SAPD.
3. Demonstrate initiative and control blockades on your own, as shown during training.
4. Understand that all this is to your benefit, await to be approached regarding rank, do not seek it.

Blue Phase

1. Maintain the status you are now at, for you will soon be recognized as an asset to the SAPD.




VI. The complete re-work of SWAT.

Reworking SWAT in to a tactical response team, to encourage organized roleplayers crime and create a genuinely enjoyable situation for all, not a death squad that squawks insults and creates a clique. I'll leave it at that, to avoid flaming, and if you really want me to show you i'll put together a film to make it blindingly obvious - but just follow these guys around for a day and you'll see just how great they are ... at killing people.



I did that all in about 40min? I didn't even extensively research or apply trains of thought, you ask what the "old days" are? It's when people had nerve to actually be strong of character and enforce some sort of cohesive team throughout the police force, today it's really sad - and so when you hear the "old days"? That's what people are referring toward. P.S - a one month long application process? Oxford university replies quicker!

First post in the whole topic which made me take in consideration.
But as i said - words are easily said, the actions and implementions take? Several time for it to be processed.

I cannot say all of this will be reviewed, some of it will be ticked off due to the vision of the SAPD. But a positive thing i can say to you is that i will certainly take this under-review.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 17, 2012, 13:27:37 pm
James really nice work there, for the 1 month you are really back, except the past 2 years and half inactive, that you were away doing something different, most of us worked here and belive me we all had fresh ideas, but boost runs out after several months, now we are trying to be reasonable and in the same time improve SAPD. I really like this fire you have there, but would it be the same if you weren't inactive for 2 years and half ?

I can understand you might feel tired, but Plam my friend, that's not an exscuse you see in history anywhere at all for letting standards slip, even if fault rests on no soul single individual, there should always be "fire" enough to ensure measures are in place - or passing the "fire" (or torch) on to someone that can continue to enforce what you did long ago. The police force is just completely out've control in terms of management, it's like nobody knows where to begin or to do what any more, so if I was chief? That's an example of how i'd go about it.

That you're taking it in to review, Paul? That's great news! Implementation is easier then you think if you offer rewards to those underneath you that can help, that's how the chain of command is supposed to work, it is difficult - I agree - but that's the test of leadership.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 17, 2012, 13:30:04 pm
Yeah no worries, just give me sometime so i can review it when i am available today or so. Got a lot of things up for me at the moment, obviously with the help of command.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Swig on February 17, 2012, 13:39:04 pm
We just have to accept that SAPD is going forwards and changes has to be made to keep it up to date.
But the point of James is good, the standard should not be hard to maintain..

And also in old days if a cop showed great cop work it was not necessary to use all this time wasting away on academy...
It should go a line between those who are not that experienced and so on.. if the leaders have seen them in action in game for example..

 :)
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jonny O'Sullivan on February 17, 2012, 13:47:14 pm
Nicely written James. If most of this was implemented then we would have a great police force. As James said it's alot easier to than you think for this to happen, there are alot of people alongside you Paul wanting to help out. You're not alone in this.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Mahome on February 17, 2012, 14:37:48 pm

VI. The complete re-work of SWAT.

Reworking SWAT in to a tactical response team, to encourage organized roleplayers crime and create a genuinely enjoyable situation for all, not a death squad that squawks insults and creates a clique. I'll leave it at that, to avoid flaming, and if you really want me to show you i'll put together a film to make it blindingly obvious - but just follow these guys around for a day and you'll see just how great they are ... at killing people.


Yes please, promotional videos are always welcome to show how succesful we are :)
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Joseph_Allen on February 17, 2012, 15:08:52 pm

VI. The complete re-work of SWAT.

Reworking SWAT in to a tactical response team, to encourage organized roleplayers crime and create a genuinely enjoyable situation for all, not a death squad that squawks insults and creates a clique. I'll leave it at that, to avoid flaming, and if you really want me to show you i'll put together a film to make it blindingly obvious - but just follow these guys around for a day and you'll see just how great they are ... at killing people.


Yes please, promotional videos are always welcome to show how succesful we are :)

Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't SWAT supposed to handle high-risk situations where there's a good chance people will start shooting?  :trust:
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Orel on February 17, 2012, 15:11:57 pm
SWAT is doing very well on the field,we do both special response and tactical situations.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jay_Adams on February 17, 2012, 15:51:09 pm
Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't SWAT supposed to handle high-risk situations where there's a good chance people will start shooting?  :trust:

If that's the case then why does every Officer have a firearm?
If SWAT responds to every situation where there's a chance people 'will' start shooting, then surely it's not required for 'normal' Officers to have a weapon, as logically and practically it'd be a redundant and unessential tool as 'SWAT' would always handle such situations of which would require the use of firearms.

Yet that is not the case, as in Argonath we know it is a constant (high) threat and an inevitability that an Officer will come under fire; and therefore it'd be retardation to send him or her out on patrol without the ability to defend themselves: therefore Officers are trained (or should be) to handle such 'common' threats without the need to call in SWAT, unless the situation is escalated to require such a department to intervene.   

SWAT should be a tactical advantage that SAPD has: not one of which SAPD is dependent on.
SWAT should be the last resort, the final elevation of force: when ALL ELSE has failed. (Negotiations, Intimidation etc...)

SWAT should be, and in the past has been a LIFE SAVING ORGANISATION, NOT A LIFE TAKING ONE


Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Nicholas Baker on February 17, 2012, 15:59:27 pm
SWAT should be, and in the past has been a LIFE SAVING ORGANISATION, NOT A LIFE TAKING ONE

^

If I remember right, in one of the 9 lessons of 2 academy system editions away we had this small but important sentence which goes like this;

"Apprehending the subject is our main goal, eliminating the subject is a last resort choice"
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jay_Adams on February 17, 2012, 16:16:50 pm

If I remember right, in one of the 9 lessons of 2 academy system editions away we had this small but important sentence which goes like this;

"Apprehending the subject is our main goal, eliminating the subject is a last resort choice"

As it should be.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Renz0 on February 17, 2012, 16:22:28 pm
One other thing is, lets just say all of you guys are imaginary SAPD Chiefs. How are you going to bring the 'old' days? I'm am not quite sure what 'old' days you are talking about.

My fake re-work, documentation and announcement of the SAPD with this imaginary position in mind:-


San Andreas Police Department
To serve & protect.

"The rehabilitation of respect behind the department you serve, and the common goal of achieving a system that rewards team-work, tactics and initiative."

It has finally come to the attention of command, that our Officers have been empowered to the state where the national guard would consider the enforcement to be out of control, and a state of unannounced martial law has been effectively in place in our reign over the populace that we once stood up proud to assist and protect. Therefore from this monumental point onward, the SAPD will strive to condition itself for a better experience for both the players, and the officers.

I. The resource pool of the department.
II. The armoury and weaponry of the department.
III. The management of sub-divisions.
IV. Mandatory one-day-a-week training program.
V. Clear rank progression goals.
VI. The complete re-work of SWAT.



I. The resource pool of the department.

With effective immediately, the following management changes are to be made;

  • The removal of "golf carts" from the SAPD garages.
  • The removal of all but two buffalo high-speed pursuit vehicles at major SAPD headquarters.
  • The policy of returning a squad-car to the garage after use, else fines will be issued.

The community needs the reassurances of squad-cars patrolling their roads, unmarked vehicles are not a deterrence and they encourage poor quality vehicle handling during multiple responding cars chasing down a suspect on the run.



II. The armoury and weaponry of the department.

The Wild West has had less shots fired then the State of Argonath, and therefore the following restrictions are now in place:-

  • Unarmed suspects on the run cannot be fired upon, unless they have previously shot at the Officer.
  • The command /weaponequip may only be used under approval of a Lieutenant or higher, and only at major scenes.
  • The mismatched equipment that Officers have taken to wearing across the state should be checked in with a more senior officer, to see if you look presentable for the community (hats, vests, etc).



III. The management of sub-divisions.

Sub-divisions are still actively encouraged among the SAPD, how-ever private ranking systems can no longer be implemented, you must carry out the responsibilities you have been trained to undertake and not assume the mantle unless clearly ready to engage in such, with written permission from command staff. You must also present a monthly report to this public board to demonstrate that your group is providing the community with a boon, and that officers are being correctly taught under your watch.

Furthermore if you are called to purpose for regular duties away from your sub-division, you are first and foremost an SAPD officer and this always takes priority.



IV. Mandatory one-day-a-week training program.

As command has finally realized that we have such an abundance of staff eagerly ready to prove themselves, or find themselves in a more suitable position, the mandatory SAPD officer training and upkeep program has finally been realized and put to use, effective immediately, every Saturday evening at 6.00pm GMT!

  • Community policing; handling the various ethnics of the population of San Andreas.
  • Pursuits; rolling blockades in numbers when in a vehicle chase. (Be shown that you don't need a buffalo to do police work, get more pride from it).
  • Escalation drills; when to react with aggression and when not to.
  • First Response Units; find out what to do when you are all alone and first to a major situation.
  • The '4 C's'; discover what it means to - clear, cordon, control, confirm, and just how effective this simple method is to tactical policing in any situation.
  • Tactical Movement; gain insight to basic tactical movement during a shoot out or house clearence

This list will be updated over time and not all of it can be covered every training session, but areas will be focused upon instead - command staff can select what they think needs to be worked on, but everything needs to be covered at least once a month from each department.



V. Clear rank progression goals.

The commanding elements recognize our Officers desires to progress and show achievement, therefore the following stages have been implemented to show you just how to reach the rank of Senior Officer, and what to do if you want to move on further then that.

White Phase

1. Demonstrate basic road knowledge for your city.
2. Conduct radio communication through codes.
3. Display a continual outward respect to the community, even when it barks and bites at you.
4. Maintain good vehicle driving skills, be seen to keep to the limits.

Red Phase

1. Attend at least one month of training weekends, as talked about in IV.
2. Present the attitude of "exhaust all options" before engaging a suspect with a fire-arm. All life is to be protected. Innocent UNTIL proven guilty.
3. Demonstrate the willingness to work with a team, how-ever small, even if just for a blockade.
4. Consider the use of Teamspeak, even if just to listen to reports (optional).

Yellow Phase

1. Attend at least two months of training weekends, as talked about in IV.
2. Be seen to actively mentor new officers to the ways of the SAPD.
3. Demonstrate initiative and control blockades on your own, as shown during training.
4. Understand that all this is to your benefit, await to be approached regarding rank, do not seek it.

Blue Phase

1. Maintain the status you are now at, for you will soon be recognized as an asset to the SAPD.




VI. The complete re-work of SWAT.

Reworking SWAT in to a tactical response team, to encourage organized roleplayers crime and create a genuinely enjoyable situation for all, not a death squad that squawks insults and creates a clique. I'll leave it at that, to avoid flaming, and if you really want me to show you i'll put together a film to make it blindingly obvious - but just follow these guys around for a day and you'll see just how great they are ... at killing people.



I did that all in about 40min? I didn't even extensively research or apply trains of thought, you ask what the "old days" are? It's when people had nerve to actually be strong of character and enforce some sort of cohesive team throughout the police force, today it's really sad - and so when you hear the "old days"? That's what people are referring toward. P.S - a one month long application process? Oxford university replies quicker!


Looking forward to help you, as always.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ben on February 17, 2012, 16:46:25 pm
If you wanna roleplay being a Sheriff and want to be drunk in the rusty golden roads - ACS/DPD is your option
You seem marvellously uninformed, really. I'll tell you now that ACS is probably the most professional department in the whole SAPD. We're not just drunkards, and Sheriff Reece has worked HIS ASS OFF to make the ACS how it is today. Through extra applications, and strict guidelines which perhaps you haven't cared to look at, we're much more organised than the city boys.

That, my dear Deputy Chief, is progress. You seem to have missed it.

ACS is the most professional department from all of the others, dear Deputy Chief, please read the A.C.S. protocol to get an idea what ACS really is. ACS is 90% different from DPD.
^ This is pure truth. Also, the 10% similarity is:
- Some of the same people
- Same colour cars
- Same area

We're not the same.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 17, 2012, 16:48:53 pm
That, my dear Deputy Chief, is progress. You seem to have missed it.

A prime example of how sub-division monthly reports would serve to benefit command, because right now - practically everything goes unseen.

Quote
III. The management of sub-divisions.

Refer to it if you don't understand.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ben on February 17, 2012, 16:57:42 pm
That, my dear Deputy Chief, is progress. You seem to have missed it.

A prime example of how sub-division monthly reports would serve to benefit command, because right now - practically everything goes unseen.

Quote
III. The management of sub-divisions.

Refer to it if you don't understand.
Colleague, ACS was formed merely weeks ago, and had to be approved by the Deputy Chief, Chief, and the President. Surely, they should know how strict it is already?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Reece on February 17, 2012, 17:04:48 pm
Fortnightly publications from ACS can be expected to be posed both here and the main forums. ;) - Was already part of the plan

Paul, ACS are not drunkards  :gandalf:
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Chief J. Schappell on February 17, 2012, 17:44:24 pm
Which is why this is complete bullshit. At least for SA:MP anyway. Read up and think about it yourself before you come up with some essay reply.

Otherwise: you want improvement? The only players I saw on the forums willing to put some effort into it, is command staff and some ARPD cops like the BCSD.
If you bothered to read what I said instead of attacking my post, I clearly stated that it was not all users that were the reason why it was difficult to bring back.

No one ever said I wasn't allowed an essay reply. Don't like it? Don't read or reply to it. Pure and simple.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ben on February 17, 2012, 17:48:08 pm
That made me laugh  :lol:

Though an ARPD group, the Command Staff are mainly SAPD Cadets+, and have all been in the SAPD at one time or another! That suggests to me that, as BCSD is running happily, SAPD non-command are actually doing their job properly. Thanks for the support Jcs, though unknowingly ;)
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 17, 2012, 23:48:10 pm
That, my dear Deputy Chief, is progress. You seem to have missed it.

A prime example of how sub-division monthly reports would serve to benefit command, because right now - practically everything goes unseen.

Quote
III. The management of sub-divisions.

Refer to it if you don't understand.
Colleague, ACS was formed merely weeks ago, and had to be approved by the Deputy Chief, Chief, and the President. Surely, they should know how strict it is already?

Fortnightly publications from ACS can be expected to be posed both here and the main forums. ;) - Was already part of the plan

Paul, ACS are not drunkards  :gandalf:


We expected it to be more Sheriff-istic as in roleplay'd drunkin Sheriff, but as long it interests you all on how ACS is going at the moment, that's spanking great :).
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ben on February 18, 2012, 02:14:10 am
No spanking!
/me has bad memories

;)
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: FlameMan on February 19, 2012, 11:33:45 am
Academy is currently developing new proposals in order to improve it. We are focusing on making more practical sessions than theoretical so that there is a movement made.
I got my badge after three days and my final exam consisted of driving captain Flameman from point A to point B, saying what 10-4 means and shooting some posts near Fort Carson. Since I was seen to be doing a good job as a freecop, I was brought into the force extremely quickly and ended up doing a lot of work as soon as I received my badge.
The academy is supposed to weed out the sloths and train the unprepared, but what the academy has become is 'Wait 5 days to do a session, then wait 2 days to do another one'. If someone's ready to become an officer and is putting in excellent work, he shouldn't be forced to sit on his ass for days just so he can do a session an infant could do.

Duuuude, I remember that! So cool to see that you remember your officer exam :) I've got all my training programmes saved on the computer :D
Paul, if you want to see how the old training looked like, I can meet you ingame and show everything. I remember all training process, because I personally created it.

Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Joseph_Allen on February 19, 2012, 15:46:49 pm

If I remember right, in one of the 9 lessons of 2 academy system editions away we had this small but important sentence which goes like this;

"Apprehending the subject is our main goal, eliminating the subject is a last resort choice"

As it should be.

With that example in mind, given chasing a suspect who is on foot: a proper SAPD Officer would opt to pursue said suspect with Nightsticks, Pepper Spray and even an occasional bump (as I like to call them: "lovetap") from a Cruiser rather than simply gun him down?

Also, I read James' plan on SAPD's reform. My only qualm at the moment would be the mandatory once-a-week training program. What about some of us Officers who are on during the server's "downtimes"? (I live at around +8:00 GMT, meaning that I'm active when the server has around  25 - 50 people. I normally sign off when the server starts becoming active.)

P.S. I have the same reason as Ben.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ben on February 19, 2012, 15:49:09 pm
Due to the nature of my studies, I cannot stick to a schedule. I'd be forced to resign if there was a scheduled mandatory training every week, as I may not be able to attend.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [R*]EliteTerm on February 20, 2012, 00:09:28 am
What's wrong with Caddies?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Julio. on February 20, 2012, 01:30:45 am
Due to the nature of my studies, I cannot stick to a schedule. I'd be forced to resign if there was a scheduled mandatory training every week, as I may not be able to attend.

Why on earth would you resign?

I would personally take great pleasure in acknowledging this 'mandatory training,' and take an even larger pleasure in not bothering to turn up.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Renz0 on February 20, 2012, 09:10:57 am
I made 9 sessions + officer exam back in april 2011.

Go through my application and you will see. Some of it were, if i remember good:

1.Radio Communication
2. Detention / Investigation / Interrogation
3. Weapon Safety protocol

and few others.

These made me MONTH to study hard. Nowadays, you will be officer like after 2 weeks.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Plam Knight on February 20, 2012, 09:25:51 am
I made 9 sessions + officer exam back in april 2011.

Go through my application and you will see. Some of it were, if i remember good:

1.Radio Communication
2. Detention / Investigation / Interrogation
3. Weapon Safety protocol

and few others.

These made me MONTH to study hard. Nowadays, you will be officer like after 2 weeks.

If you are going to post such a comments, then at least get your facts straight.
I took the initiative to check this one, the fastest application took exactly... 1 month and 15 days.
Which I count as one month and half, as well it seems that you fully support what people have said and yet you unlike them say it should be longer, when your favourite commentators are saying it should be about the skills, not about the time. Now we all respect the criticism part, but lets not make up facts shall we ?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 20, 2012, 09:34:40 am
What's wrong with Caddies?

I don't know really..... i think some may take it as a non-realistic police transporter whilst argonath is a world of its own.

I made 9 sessions + officer exam back in april 2011.

Go through my application and you will see. Some of it were, if i remember good:

1.Radio Communication
2. Detention / Investigation / Interrogation
3. Weapon Safety protocol

and few others.

These made me MONTH to study hard. Nowadays, you will be officer like after 2 weeks.

And in these '2 weeks' as you presume - they get taught 6 sessions which concludes the whole process of the academy.
There are still SAPD applications which are still existing which were made about one month ago [+/-] and are still in the application process.
If you ask why.... then you might wanna consider that we will be watching applicants and reviewing them for some time until we get a good image of them. Hopefully this will reduce complaining against these future SAPD officers.  :roll:

But what is your point?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ben on February 20, 2012, 10:24:17 am
Due to the nature of my studies, I cannot stick to a schedule. I'd be forced to resign if there was a scheduled mandatory training every week, as I may not be able to attend.

Why on earth would you resign?

I would personally take great pleasure in acknowledging this 'mandatory training,' and take an even larger pleasure in not bothering to turn up.
/me hides his face in his palm
I don't really want to be fired...though you make a good point ;)
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Julio. on February 20, 2012, 13:02:57 pm
But what is your point?

He's saying it's easier now.

I personally agree.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 20, 2012, 13:18:08 pm
But what is your point?

He's saying it's easier now.

I personally agree.

I don't see anything easier  :trust:

Maybe it's those who are Officers+ within the SAPD already know about it? But the in-experienced will find it hard who are just cadets at the moment..

I can surely guarantee that the academy will give them tones of knowledge, but at times we do not see that unless we stick with them as much as we can. The academy is hard on how it is at the moment?, atleast for those who still have not gone through the process yet...
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Plam Knight on February 20, 2012, 15:16:03 pm
But what is your point?

He's saying it's easier now.

I personally agree.

Okay how is it easier ?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: FlameMan on February 20, 2012, 15:28:09 pm
But what is your point?

He's saying it's easier now.

I personally agree.

Okay how is it easier ?


It is easier indeed. My academy was based on practise + UNDERSTANDING the theory. It's not a problem to know all the codes. You can print a sheet of paper and you pass whole theory.
My exams were difficult to pass even with everything printed. Examiners that were taught by me knew that the point of whole exam is to prove whether candidate understands the law, procedures and codes.
In example, does he know what codes he could use to express "responding to the situation" (code 2, 3, 10-76)? Does he understand the difference between those codes? Does he understand situations and how to behave point by point? Currently officers dont know what to do if suspect is not moving in a car. They start to shoot. It was one of the examination questions, and the proper answer was only one - one officer keeps aiming at the vehicle, and second one drags suspect out of it. If candidate couldn't "catch a drift" I was asking helping questions, like "are you allowed to drag suspect out?" or if I wanted to trick him "are you allowed to carjack suspect in such situation?". It was really, really based on the understanding of the law.

And that was the theoretical part, consisting of three stages (Codes, rules/laws/procedures, situations).
Practical part was more complex:
1) Map knowledge (driving from point A to B, with additional checking knowledge of the basic codes), e.g. Code 3 to Montgomery, Code 2 to Playa del Seville, 10-76 to Las Barrancas, etc etc.
2) Fighting (nightstick fight at Fort Carson cinema)
3) Shooting (at Fort Carson cinema)
4) Driving (two stages: first checked during the map knowledge, if officer is following the traffic law, second - roleplayed chase with examiner)
5) Regular patrol with examiner

That's the difference.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Bert on February 20, 2012, 15:41:06 pm
But what is your point?

He's saying it's easier now.

I personally agree.

Okay how is it easier ?


It is easier indeed. My academy was based on practise + UNDERSTANDING the theory. It's not a problem to know all the codes. You can print a sheet of paper and you pass whole theory.
My exams were difficult to pass even with everything printed. Examiners that were taught by me knew that the point of whole exam is to prove whether candidate understands the law, procedures and codes.
In example, does he know what codes he could use to express "responding to the situation" (code 2, 3, 10-76)? Does he understand the difference between those codes? Does he understand situations and how to behave point by point? Currently officers dont know what to do if suspect is not moving in a car. They start to shoot. It was one of the examination questions, and the proper answer was only one - one officer keeps aiming at the vehicle, and second one drags suspect out of it. If candidate couldn't "catch a drift" I was asking helping questions, like "are you allowed to drag suspect out?" or if I wanted to trick him "are you allowed to carjack suspect in such situation?". It was really, really based on the understanding of the law.

And that was the theoretical part, consisting of three stages (Codes, rules/laws/procedures, situations).
Practical part was more complex:
1) Map knowledge (driving from point A to B, with additional checking knowledge of the basic codes), e.g. Code 3 to Montgomery, Code 2 to Playa del Seville, 10-76 to Las Barrancas, etc etc.
2) Fighting (nightstick fight at Fort Carson cinema)
3) Shooting (at Fort Carson cinema)
4) Driving (two stages: first checked during the map knowledge, if officer is following the traffic law, second - roleplayed chase with examiner)
5) Regular patrol with examiner

That's the difference.
That's how I became an Officer for the first time  :)
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Renz0 on February 20, 2012, 16:55:39 pm
FlameMan is right, that's what i wanted to point out. Unfortunately, i have another thinking style you don't understand, i will re-think it again and again.

@Plam: My FIRST application, posted in March 2011. - Look at mine Lessons resulats and the name of the lessons and meaning of it.


Instead og "we vill hav 4 nu officaz lets go hurry ok" re-think, add some questions for lessons for LOGIC, not only full shit of codes, as Flameman stated, print it out = passing.

Something with LOGIC, some tricks will test your ABILNESS to join PD.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ben on February 20, 2012, 20:20:58 pm
Yeah, how it is now:
- Print off codes
- Write down exactly what the instructor says
- Use notes during exam
= pass

I printed codes in my officer exam too!  :lol:
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Julio. on February 20, 2012, 20:38:21 pm
All theory is easy due to the fact they can be copied.

I'm saying it's easier as an observation of the people, not the system.

There are some officers around of quality so terrible, that to have passed there must be an issue.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Huntsman on February 20, 2012, 20:40:06 pm
Yeah, how it is now:
- Print off codes
- Write down exactly what the instructor says
- Use notes during exam
= pass

I printed codes in my officer exam too!  :lol:

Lol i have all them written down.. In my head ofc!  i can remember all of the codes :D
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ben on February 20, 2012, 20:45:33 pm
Yeah, how it is now:
- Print off codes
- Write down exactly what the instructor says
- Use notes during exam
= pass

I printed codes in my officer exam too!  :lol:

Lol i have all them written down.. In my head ofc!  i can remember all of the codes :D
I can remember them now...!  ;)
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: FlameMan on February 20, 2012, 20:49:08 pm
You can remember everything, you can have all codes in your head and remember procedures word by word. But the point is - do you understand them?
Probably most of you will say: "ofc I do, I've learnt them and I understand what I've learnt". But to 90% of new officers, who passed through the new academy, I can prove in 5 minutes, that you do not.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ben on February 20, 2012, 20:54:35 pm
You can remember everything, you can have all codes in your head and remember procedures word by word. But the point is - do you understand them?
Probably most of you will say: "ofc I do, I've learnt them and I understand what I've learnt". But to 90% of new officers, who passed through the new academy, I can prove in 5 minutes, that you do not.
I didn't understand everything when I first became an officer...just reeled off what I was taught! Experience made me what I am now...I don't remember the academy teaching me most of my cop RP  :lol:
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 00:58:29 am
Due to the nature of my studies, I cannot stick to a schedule. I'd be forced to resign if there was a scheduled mandatory training every week, as I may not be able to attend.

Why on earth would you resign?

I would personally take great pleasure in acknowledging this 'mandatory training,' and take an even larger pleasure in not bothering to turn up.

I find it f**king hilarious how literal you took that imaginary draft post, not to mention your inability to think for a second that it could be changed to once a month so that people like you who can't structure their lives to fit in an hour a week somewhere have enough ample time so you don't feel like you actually have to work at being a police officer, and so your favoured TDM server still has your blue name when you next log in.

Can you give me some SMG ammo btw? I hear shooting orange dots running away with automatic weapons is good sport these days.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Cane on February 21, 2012, 03:56:10 am
What's wrong with Caddies?

In my opinion, they go against the idea of 'professionalism' that everyone seems to crave these days.

Quote from: Oliver Daniels
I got my badge after three days and my final exam consisted of driving captain Flameman from point A to point B, saying what 10-4 means and shooting some posts near Fort Carson. Since I was seen to be doing a good job as a freecop, I was brought into the force extremely quickly and ended up doing a lot of work as soon as I received my badge.
The academy is supposed to weed out the sloths and train the unprepared, but what the academy has become is 'Wait 5 days to do a session, then wait 2 days to do another one'. If someone's ready to become an officer and is putting in excellent work, he shouldn't be forced to sit on his ass for days just so he can do a session an infant could do.

I remember my test consisting of driving Vince from Los Santos to Bone County then to Las Venturas, saying what codes mean and all, go through a 211 scenario at a casino, then shot posts near Fort Carson. It always makes me laugh at how f**king pathetic the so called "exams" are planned out now.

Due to the nature of my studies, I cannot stick to a schedule. I'd be forced to resign if there was a scheduled mandatory training every week, as I may not be able to attend.

Why on earth would you resign?

I would personally take great pleasure in acknowledging this 'mandatory training,' and take an even larger pleasure in not bothering to turn up.

I find it f**king hilarious how literal you took that imaginary draft post, not to mention your inability to think for a second that it could be changed to once a month so that people like you who can't structure their lives to fit in an hour a week somewhere have enough ample time so you don't feel like you actually have to work at being a police officer, and so your favoured TDM server still has your blue name when you next log in.

Can you give me some SMG ammo btw? I hear shooting orange dots running away with automatic weapons is good sport these days.

Hi James! Good to see that you're your usual self. (No sarcasm intended.)
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Chief J. Schappell on February 21, 2012, 04:37:36 am
Yeah, how it is now:
- Print off codes
- Write down exactly what the instructor says
- Use notes during exam
= pass

I printed codes in my officer exam too!  :lol:
I printed them, studied them, and then hid them away during my examination, just to prove to myself that I was ready for such a job. Flameman was my examiner as a SA:MP SAPD Captain at the time too. I even remember my Officer's exam with [R*]Lionz in MTA:VC. Did the same, exact thing with my code information, which helped me memorize them instead. I will never forget those days. :cop:
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 21, 2012, 05:26:03 am
Yeah, how it is now:
- Print off codes
- Write down exactly what the instructor says
- Use notes during exam
= pass

I printed codes in my officer exam too!  :lol:

Don't tell me that's new... i did that with every session i got when i joined the Academy... :D  :rofl:

But in the olden sessions, the academy send you the session review in full detail via forum pm.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Nicholas Baker on February 21, 2012, 11:17:38 am
Due to the nature of my studies, I cannot stick to a schedule. I'd be forced to resign if there was a scheduled mandatory training every week, as I may not be able to attend.

Why on earth would you resign?

I would personally take great pleasure in acknowledging this 'mandatory training,' and take an even larger pleasure in not bothering to turn up.

I find it f**king hilarious how literal you took that imaginary draft post, not to mention your inability to think for a second that it could be changed to once a month so that people like you who can't structure their lives to fit in an hour a week somewhere have enough ample time so you don't feel like you actually have to work at being a police officer, and so your favoured TDM server still has your blue name when you next log in.

Can you give me some SMG ammo btw? I hear shooting orange dots running away with automatic weapons is good sport these days.

Exactly what it is. These days I have 2 Types of equipment: Combat, M4, Deagle and Modern Armour. < This is for when DMers are on their daily sprees.

If the DMers are out (Wich wont last long). Then I go for RP Equipment: 9mm, Pump Shotgun (Very rarely, Mostly I keep Combat on me), SMG or some Spare M4 (But dont use them) Me and Chris mostly try to interact with citizens and see if they are willing to RolePlay and so we get in a 1 Hour Roleplay, Which is more enjoyable than going pew pew on the streets shooting Suspects on NRG's and Infernuses
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ben on February 21, 2012, 11:57:00 am
Due to the nature of my studies, I cannot stick to a schedule. I'd be forced to resign if there was a scheduled mandatory training every week, as I may not be able to attend.

Why on earth would you resign?

I would personally take great pleasure in acknowledging this 'mandatory training,' and take an even larger pleasure in not bothering to turn up.

I find it f**king hilarious how literal you took that imaginary draft post, not to mention your inability to think for a second that it could be changed to once a month so that people like you who can't structure their lives to fit in an hour a week somewhere have enough ample time so you don't feel like you actually have to work at being a police officer, and so your favoured TDM server still has your blue name when you next log in.

Can you give me some SMG ammo btw? I hear shooting orange dots running away with automatic weapons is good sport these days.
Don't lecture me, you childish fool.

Yeah, how it is now:
- Print off codes
- Write down exactly what the instructor says
- Use notes during exam
= pass

I printed codes in my officer exam too!  :lol:

Don't tell me that's new... i did that with every session i got when i joined the Academy... :D  :rofl:

But in the olden sessions, the academy send you the session review in full detail via forum pm.
I graduated a few days after you babe<3
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: GiacJr on February 21, 2012, 12:12:23 pm
Oliver I have to admit that some of these points are true, yet you put it in a fully wrong way, instead of making a proper full with evidence and ect... statement, sending it to Pancher as you know he is fully experienced and capable to deal with it, you come here making well not whining, but close to it topic. If you see something wrong then contact straight the chief of police, after all he is the most experienced member of SAPD and the one capable to deal with this.
Here is the main problem with SAPD these days - none of the command staff wants anything to be public. Everything HAS to be behind closed doors, where there is no public scrutiny and no way for there to be any criticism. Wanna know my opinion of this?
f**k that.
This entire organisation NEEDS the public to see EVERYTHING to run effectively. If you wanna report a guy - everyone should see it. If you wanna rant about SAPD Command - everyone should be able to see it. Silencing and hiding people's views is effectively censorship and is NOT helping ANYTHING at ANY POINT.

Speeding when not reacting to a crime.
Reckless driving.
Driving on pavements (sidewalks).
Driving on wrong side of road without due cause.
Abuse of police siren when not required.
Obstructing traffic without cause.
Shooting standing still suspect
Driving a non marked vehicle
Exceeding weapon usage
Disgusting behaviour
... and more.


If you are guilty of such violation, you will be taken to the Chief's office and we will discuss it there RPly'd instead of the easy punishing way.
I'm sorry, but this is bullshit. You are playing a Grand Theft Auto game, not some bullshit racing game or something where you need to be serious. DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR? Honestly? You've got to be shitting me. Go to SA:MP General, look at Funny Chat Logs, and you will see that all of these things you have posted are traditional parts of this server and this police force. If you start getting people into trouble for these tiny little things then you will find a LOT of people finding it difficult to work in the boundaries of the SAPD, and leaving or simply going inactive...

One other thing is, lets just say all of you guys are imaginary SAPD Chiefs. How are you going to bring the 'old' days? I'm am not quite sure what 'old' days you are talking about. I don't even get how 'old' days relate to anything to the future. Because either way, our job is to serve and protect. Not just some 'old' days thing you guys were in with your friends and such. Because guess what, every single thing in life changes. Everything slightly changes for more interest and movement.

'Old days' ..........

Focus on the future, plans are welcomed.
If I was a SAPD Chief, I'd be overhauling the application process, reworking SWAT, removing all official sub-groups, actually ensuring that every department has the proper amount of command staff - who are actually properly fitted to the job (i'm not even going to bother naming names, but at least half of the command staff are under this sweeping statement), and making sure that every single unit feels as if they are an integral part of the team. Wanna know why DPD succeeded so much in 2007/8 and in 2009/10 when I was leading it? Because I was inclusive, I made the right decisions on promotions and I ensured that no sub-group gained too much power. Wanna know why SAPD was so desireable up until 2011? Because it was an exclusive force of highly trained invidiuals who worked perfectly in a team, led by well trained and appropriate leaders. All of the above, we are lacking today.

One other thing is, lets just say all of you guys are imaginary SAPD Chiefs. How are you going to bring the 'old' days? I'm am not quite sure what 'old' days you are talking about.

My fake re-work, documentation and announcement of the SAPD with this imaginary position in mind:-


San Andreas Police Department
To serve & protect.

"The rehabilitation of respect behind the department you serve, and the common goal of achieving a system that rewards team-work, tactics and initiative."

It has finally come to the attention of command, that our Officers have been empowered to the state where the national guard would consider the enforcement to be out of control, and a state of unannounced martial law has been effectively in place in our reign over the populace that we once stood up proud to assist and protect. Therefore from this monumental point onward, the SAPD will strive to condition itself for a better experience for both the players, and the officers.

I. The resource pool of the department.
II. The armoury and weaponry of the department.
III. The management of sub-divisions.
IV. Mandatory one-day-a-week training program.
V. Clear rank progression goals.
VI. The complete re-work of SWAT.



I. The resource pool of the department.

With effective immediately, the following management changes are to be made;

  • The removal of "golf carts" from the SAPD garages.
  • The removal of all but two buffalo high-speed pursuit vehicles at major SAPD headquarters.
  • The policy of returning a squad-car to the garage after use, else fines will be issued.

The community needs the reassurances of squad-cars patrolling their roads, unmarked vehicles are not a deterrence and they encourage poor quality vehicle handling during multiple responding cars chasing down a suspect on the run.



II. The armoury and weaponry of the department.

The Wild West has had less shots fired then the State of Argonath, and therefore the following restrictions are now in place:-

  • Unarmed suspects on the run cannot be fired upon, unless they have previously shot at the Officer.
  • The command /weaponequip may only be used under approval of a Lieutenant or higher, and only at major scenes.
  • The mismatched equipment that Officers have taken to wearing across the state should be checked in with a more senior officer, to see if you look presentable for the community (hats, vests, etc).



III. The management of sub-divisions.

Sub-divisions are still actively encouraged among the SAPD, how-ever private ranking systems can no longer be implemented, you must carry out the responsibilities you have been trained to undertake and not assume the mantle unless clearly ready to engage in such, with written permission from command staff. You must also present a monthly report to this public board to demonstrate that your group is providing the community with a boon, and that officers are being correctly taught under your watch.

Furthermore if you are called to purpose for regular duties away from your sub-division, you are first and foremost an SAPD officer and this always takes priority.



IV. Mandatory one-day-a-week training program.

As command has finally realized that we have such an abundance of staff eagerly ready to prove themselves, or find themselves in a more suitable position, the mandatory SAPD officer training and upkeep program has finally been realized and put to use, effective immediately, every Saturday evening at 6.00pm GMT!

  • Community policing; handling the various ethnics of the population of San Andreas.
  • Pursuits; rolling blockades in numbers when in a vehicle chase. (Be shown that you don't need a buffalo to do police work, get more pride from it).
  • Escalation drills; when to react with aggression and when not to.
  • First Response Units; find out what to do when you are all alone and first to a major situation.
  • The '4 C's'; discover what it means to - clear, cordon, control, confirm, and just how effective this simple method is to tactical policing in any situation.
  • Tactical Movement; gain insight to basic tactical movement during a shoot out or house clearence

This list will be updated over time and not all of it can be covered every training session, but areas will be focused upon instead - command staff can select what they think needs to be worked on, but everything needs to be covered at least once a month from each department.



V. Clear rank progression goals.

The commanding elements recognize our Officers desires to progress and show achievement, therefore the following stages have been implemented to show you just how to reach the rank of Senior Officer, and what to do if you want to move on further then that.

White Phase

1. Demonstrate basic road knowledge for your city.
2. Conduct radio communication through codes.
3. Display a continual outward respect to the community, even when it barks and bites at you.
4. Maintain good vehicle driving skills, be seen to keep to the limits.

Red Phase

1. Attend at least one month of training weekends, as talked about in IV.
2. Present the attitude of "exhaust all options" before engaging a suspect with a fire-arm. All life is to be protected. Innocent UNTIL proven guilty.
3. Demonstrate the willingness to work with a team, how-ever small, even if just for a blockade.
4. Consider the use of Teamspeak, even if just to listen to reports (optional).

Yellow Phase

1. Attend at least two months of training weekends, as talked about in IV.
2. Be seen to actively mentor new officers to the ways of the SAPD.
3. Demonstrate initiative and control blockades on your own, as shown during training.
4. Understand that all this is to your benefit, await to be approached regarding rank, do not seek it.

Blue Phase

1. Maintain the status you are now at, for you will soon be recognized as an asset to the SAPD.




VI. The complete re-work of SWAT.

Reworking SWAT in to a tactical response team, to encourage organized roleplayers crime and create a genuinely enjoyable situation for all, not a death squad that squawks insults and creates a clique. I'll leave it at that, to avoid flaming, and if you really want me to show you i'll put together a film to make it blindingly obvious - but just follow these guys around for a day and you'll see just how great they are ... at killing people.



I did that all in about 40min? I didn't even extensively research or apply trains of thought, you ask what the "old days" are? It's when people had nerve to actually be strong of character and enforce some sort of cohesive team throughout the police force, today it's really sad - and so when you hear the "old days"? That's what people are referring toward. P.S - a one month long application process? Oxford university replies quicker!
Sorry James but I am not gonna stand back and let you even so much as suggest - even if it is only a draft designed to show proof of concept - that we should be doing any of this bullshit robot RP shit. People should be promoted based on their skill and experience - NOT in some time schedule, and nobody should be forced to go to any kind of training - if you cannot make your units WANT to be trained, then what will forcing them to do it achieve? Nothing. If someone doesn't wanna do it, then they won't. This is a game. Nobody will be forced into doing anything like that. In fact, not only is this a game, it is a ROLEPLAY server, which means IMAGINATION, which means people will NOT stand for such bullshit schedules. If you want that, go to some RLRP server and become chief of their police, or maybe go to play some other game where you can be a 1337 cop with his super cop ideas.


If you are going to post such a comments, then at least get your facts straight.
I took the initiative to check this one, the fastest application took exactly... 1 month and 15 days.
Which I count as one month and half, as well it seems that you fully support what people have said and yet you unlike them say it should be longer, when your favourite commentators are saying it should be about the skills, not about the time. Now we all respect the criticism part, but lets not make up facts shall we ?

That is bullshit. One month and 15 days can NOT be the fastest applicant, and I highly doubt that you looked through 4-5 pages to check this fact. I suggest that someone else double checks this instead of blankly accepting Plam's suggestion.


It is easier indeed. My academy was based on practise + UNDERSTANDING the theory. It's not a problem to know all the codes. You can print a sheet of paper and you pass whole theory.
My exams were difficult to pass even with everything printed. Examiners that were taught by me knew that the point of whole exam is to prove whether candidate understands the law, procedures and codes.
In example, does he know what codes he could use to express "responding to the situation" (code 2, 3, 10-76)? Does he understand the difference between those codes? Does he understand situations and how to behave point by point? Currently officers dont know what to do if suspect is not moving in a car. They start to shoot. It was one of the examination questions, and the proper answer was only one - one officer keeps aiming at the vehicle, and second one drags suspect out of it. If candidate couldn't "catch a drift" I was asking helping questions, like "are you allowed to drag suspect out?" or if I wanted to trick him "are you allowed to carjack suspect in such situation?". It was really, really based on the understanding of the law.

And that was the theoretical part, consisting of three stages (Codes, rules/laws/procedures, situations).
Practical part was more complex:
1) Map knowledge (driving from point A to B, with additional checking knowledge of the basic codes), e.g. Code 3 to Montgomery, Code 2 to Playa del Seville, 10-76 to Las Barrancas, etc etc.
2) Fighting (nightstick fight at Fort Carson cinema)
3) Shooting (at Fort Carson cinema)
4) Driving (two stages: first checked during the map knowledge, if officer is following the traffic law, second - roleplayed chase with examiner)
5) Regular patrol with examiner

That's the difference.
You would be a fool to disagree with FlameMan. He was academy chief for a reason - he knew his shit. When I became academy chief, I stuck to his structure very closely because it was the best that the SAPD has ever had. Wanna know how I got into SAPD in 2007? I asked RON for a position and he made me DPD Captain. I didn't have to do any of this stuff, and I regret it. I was probably a terrible field officer back then - I specialised in forum work and organisation. Now, however, through five years of experience, I'm one of the best field officers this organisation has, as well as one of the most skilled and able. I blame this on my work with the academy and FlameMan's model. For it to properly work, you must work with your cadets and teach them by example. In doing so, I gained vital skills and knowledge as I was teaching the very things to the cadets.



I don't expect any change to come as a result of my post. As a matter of fact, I'm expecting it to be deleted or edited in some way. That wouldn't surprise me. In saying all of that, I do hope that I've made an impact on some people's opinions of this topic and this issue. It's of great importance to the SAPD. It IS possible to return back to the 'old days' - not the literal old days, but to return to the VALUES, PRACTICES and GOALS of the 'old days'. This is what we need most. This is what the SAPD needs to move forward. Without these old values embraced, we will go into an uncertain future full of unprofessionalism (I don't define professionalism by James Hunter's lines of Robot RP btw) and unfairness.
If I were to make recommendations right this moment on what to do:
Pancher, review all of your command staff. Check their achievements. Check their activity. Check their work with their men. If they have achieved very little meaningful things - fire them. If they are not active - fire them. If they think they are above their men, if they do not patrol with their men, and if they have little communication with their men - fire them.
Pancher, ask Nexxt to review the academy. Dig up mine and/or FlameMan's old systems and ask Nexxt to try and create a new academy based around those systems. Bring back the necessity of skills & knowledge to join the SAPD.
Pancher, give out strict instruction in regards to promotions. Ensure that people are not promoted based on ass licking and good relationships with command staff. (Nobody try to deny this btw, I was a witness to this throughout my five years). If you find any promotions that are along these lines, remove them back to Officer and make them work their way back up like everyone else does.
Pancher, remove all of the sub groups and re establish SWAT as a central, highly professional, highly skilled group that focussed on special response to highly dangerous situations such as 207s and bomb threats. I'm slightly removed from what is going on with sub-groups at the moment due to a bit of inactivity, but you will remember in 2008 when Vince shut down all sub groups, SAPD really took off and we were able to establish professionalism and fairness.

I could go on, but I need to go to sleep. I look forward to responding to all of your nasty remarks in 24 hours.

Regards,
GiacJr
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Nicholas Baker on February 21, 2012, 12:18:34 pm
Ladies and Gentlemans, Dont look any further. We've found our perfect man.

 :app:
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 13:04:25 pm
Ladies and Gentlemans, Dont look any further. We've found our perfect man.

 :app:

Yeah! So much hot air we don't even need to pay the heating bill any more; the perfect man - for a warm house. GiacJr has never amounted any work beyond being a regular cop among the background, and just admitted to asking for a rank and being given something completely out of the blue, a prime example of the laughable achievement it takes to get rank around here.
Giac, your a good cop - but you're not a leader, and you don't understand the concept at all, it doesn't force people in to roles they wouldn't enjoy, in fact the only reason you spat at was the mention of mandatory training, take that away and you've not said diddly-squat about anything else going on there. Why do you think SAPD was so successful in the past? It had procedures in place, just like the ones that where wrote up, and god did those few rules go such a long way.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: GiacJr on February 21, 2012, 13:09:07 pm
Ladies and Gentlemans, Dont look any further. We've found our perfect man.

 :app:

Yeah! So much hot air we don't even need to pay the heating bill any more; the perfect man - for a warm house. GiacJr has never amounted any work beyond being a regular cop among the background, and just admitted to asking for a rank and being given something completely out of the blue, a prime example of the laughable achievement it takes to get rank around here.
Giac, your a good cop - but you're not a leader, and you don't understand the concept at all, it doesn't force people in to roles they wouldn't enjoy, in fact the only reason you spat at was the mention of mandatory training, take that away and you've not said diddly-squat about anything else going on there. Why do you think SAPD was so successful in the past? It had procedures in place, just like the ones that where wrote up, and god did those few rules go such a long way.
You wanna talk to me about leadership mr. Constantly ditching every role he's ever had, time and time again, without warning, to play other servers or other games, leaving his men in disarray?
You were never around when I was a leader so you can shove your bullshit assumptions up your ass and stop assuming that every time you return from one of your other games you will be able to resume to your usual power hungry self who is god reincarnated and can make the sapd oh so incredible. If you are still here in 2 months, talk to me.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Swig on February 21, 2012, 13:14:19 pm
I have to agreed with Giac on the "Report to Officer" thing, i just "FTW" with once i heard it from someone, some days ago..
Argonath has always been public regarding things like this, but the ARPD(SAPD Actually, its the only one) starts to hide and hide..

Do not close the public more and more out - open more up to them..
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 13:14:43 pm
Quote
GiacJr: "Incoherent babbling sentence amidst tears of frustration."


You mean the two years of sustained training, from the creation and founding of S.W.A.T to the implementation of its scripts and vehicles? Oh! Yeah! I remember that too. Do you mean the singular role of S.W.A.T Commander as a SAPD Captain? I don't count any additional roles, perhaps you should try counting on your fingers, because your numerical skills are wanting.

You also sound pretty butt hurt, Giac, I suppose the truth does hurt.

To also include:- I gave ample notice of departure*, and even trained others in aspects of leadership to take over from my role in my absence, I returned twice due to these people not being able to achieve the desired result - each time setting it back up again so that they could have another chance.

So that would mean S.W.A.T was founded (tactics demonstrated as the 'SRU' to Chiefs of Police, and server owners by very first SWAT team as regular officers to gain approval and SWAT models/skins), the rules and training set-up (creation of a sub-forum on this board, loads of threads), scripts where implemented (weapon equip, fast roping/winch system), including vehicles (raindance helicopters, riot tank, enforcers, command vehicle) and buildings (kill house, HQ with gates) and that was all maintained for two years along side dearly missed CBFasi, and then I came back several times after people requested me to put it back on track, all the while countless operations both as SWAT and regular SAPD commanding staff on the field. Just to drum that in to your angry teenager head - sorry, remind me what you've done again? I'll answer that for you ~ nothing, apart from hot air.


* - Just to underline this, that means warning was given well before taking leave.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Chris Knight on February 21, 2012, 13:29:30 pm
I have to agreed with Giac on the "Report to Officer" thing, i just "FTW" with once i heard it from someone, some days ago..
Argonath has always been public regarding things like this, but the ARPD(SAPD Actually, its the only one) starts to hide and hide..

Do not close the public more and more out - open more up to them..
So people can steal more out of SAPD(ARPD)  ;) ;)
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Plam Knight on February 21, 2012, 13:31:29 pm
From what I see the "old days" people are fighting how SAPD should have been, more then how it was.
I guess so far what each one of you posted is your vision how it should look like, not how it used to look like.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 13:39:44 pm
From what I see the "old days" people are fighting how SAPD should have been, more then how it was.
I guess so far what each one of you posted is your vision how it should look like, not how it used to look like.


It's more along the lines of what's to be salvaged from the wreckage of what today is ~ if you want the past to be present? You'd need the people, and unfortunately they're gone never to return, probably for the best so they don't see what's become reality.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Plam Knight on February 21, 2012, 13:44:22 pm
No offense, but you couldn't pass/wait trough the reinstatement proceess in this "wreckage". You gave up on the road to there, yet you say how easy it is to enter SAPD these days and how SAPD is a "wreckage" ?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Cyril on February 21, 2012, 13:47:31 pm
No offense, but you couldn't pass/wait trough the reinstatement proceess in this "wreckage". You gave up on the road to there, yet you say how easy it is to enter SAPD these days and how SAPD is a "wreckage" ?

+1
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 13:53:08 pm
No offense, but you couldn't pass/wait trough the reinstatement proceess in this "wreckage". You gave up on the road to there, yet you say how easy it is to enter SAPD these days and how SAPD is a "wreckage" ?

+1

Quote me where I said "SAPD is easy to enter these days.", go and find the post and quote it to me - because it sounds to me like you just made that sentence up. You pick and choose what's comfortable to your situation, for example Rare ~ booted out for misconduct, re-applys and is back in within the week. Other reinstatement requests have been waiting for longer than a month and it doesn't matter how many patrol reports and flawless conduct demonstrations they show, and you make that obvious clique-like attitude justification and means for why I wasn't accepted? Hilarious - don't try to pacify hard facts with picking and choosing on what is a failed system.


That would make it -1 If we're score keeping, Cyril - better luck next time, see you at the finals? Mong. Your capability as a SWAT operative is viable from your kill/death radio, and you are very well known as a lap dog to the heels of Ben Samiir, part of the problem in major essence.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Plam Knight on February 21, 2012, 13:56:37 pm
No offense, but you couldn't pass/wait trough the reinstatement proceess in this "wreckage". You gave up on the road to there, yet you say how easy it is to enter SAPD these days and how SAPD is a "wreckage" ?

+1

Quote me where I said "SAPD is easy to enter these days.", go and find the post and quote it to me - because it sounds to me like you just made that sentence up. You pick and choose what's comfortable to your situation, for example Rare ~ booted out for misconduct, re-applys and is back in within the week. Other reinstatement requests have been waiting for longer than a month, and you make that obvious clique-like attitude justification and means for why I wasn't accepted? Hilarious - don't try to pacify hard facts with picking and choosing.


-1 If we're score keeping, Cyril - better luck next time, see you at the finals? Mong.

You all say how easy it is to pass academy and become SAPD officer, that I am certain of, I read it about 5000 times.
Maybe there is a reason why the reinstatement requests are holding for so long, one reason is you gave up and you withdrawed it, that just shows that our reason for holding your reinstatement longer was a good decision. You could easly do the same thing ones you are in SAPD and just resign again.
You are saying everywhere how SAPD is bad these days and etc... Yet you couldn't hold off enough to be accepted and fix SAPD with your "magic".
As well Rare has been hard working officer for the past several months, where have you been ?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Cyril on February 21, 2012, 13:56:44 pm
You don't know anything about Rare, so don't even bother speaking about him. Each case are different, if he got accepted back so fast, there is a reason.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 13:59:46 pm
That was a pathetic attempt at trying to crawl out of the hole you dug for yourselves, I don't even need to underline how poor your responses are in comparison to speaking about the general demeanor in the way procedures are handled, you're clawing at crumbs that aren't even there and it's just wasted effort on your behalf.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Plam Knight on February 21, 2012, 14:04:02 pm
You keep on saying how bad everything except your work, yourself and everything you touch is. That just says enough of how trustworthy any suggestions coming out of you is.
As well I would like to ask Oliver would he like to continue this topic or he thinks he "made" his point ?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 14:06:45 pm
You keep on saying how bad everything except your work, yourself and everything you touch is. That just says enough of how trustworthy any suggestions coming out of you is.

No, that's just your opinion and it's like an ass hole, everyone has one - don't get upset because mine doesn't agree with yours. Credit is due to where it is actually due, and like Giac said, half of the command staff aren't worth the tip of a hat.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Orel on February 21, 2012, 14:08:57 pm
If the chiefs decided to let Rare be reinstated it must have a reason.
Where have you been when SAPD needed you?You came back from 2 years inactive and started talking on SAPD / SWAT without a reason and without even knowing whats going on.
Have you joined SWAT for one time to see how they work?I don't think so.
As you said SWAT take lives instead of save life,so to be honest how can you save life without taking one?If someone shoots and threat the life of another person of course we should not start to RP with him while he is killing the person,shall we?
Or maybe should we stand behind the criminal and do /wave while he is killing the person?
If you wouldn't leave Argonath for so much time you could see whats going on here,every criminal takes his NRG and Combat shotgun and pew pew every blue dot he sees on the map.
In your "old days",there was not even NRG's and Infernuses on the server,the criminals used a deagle against cops while the cops used another guns,of course its easier to RP with criminal on kart,should we RP with criminal too while he shoot us with M4 from his NRG?should we wait 50 minutes before opening fire?
Go read the SAPD cases and reports if you think we're DM squad,with little common sense you would think about it before I even came to reply here.
And another point,Rare maybe left for 3 days after being banned for provoking,you left for 2 years to play your games,and now you come back and except to get your rank back after 1 month?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Plam Knight on February 21, 2012, 14:09:16 pm
You keep on saying how bad everything except your work, yourself and everything you touch is. That just says enough of how trustworthy any suggestions coming out of you is.

No, that's just your opinion and it's like an ass hole, everyone has one - don't get upset because mine doesn't agree with yours. Credit is due to where it is actually due, and like Giac said, half of the command staff aren't worth the tip of a hat.


Like you said that's your opinion, I don't mind what you are saying about the command staff, after all you have done so much work for the past... 1 month that you have such a great opinion on everything that is happening.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 14:13:22 pm
Haha, OK - my point clearly stands despite what you're trying to shovel out, criminals had the same access to what they do today and we didn't buckle under it and become a deathmatch squad. I don't need to say anything more for the time being, because you're not actually coming up with anything viable - so i'll watch until someone posts something that actually A.) makes sense and B.) isn't the same old bullcrap excuses regurgitated through another drone. Er ... that said ... it might be a while.  :razz:

P.S ~ note the replies of frustration are from SWAT and their close friends. SHOCK HORROR!!!111!11
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Orel on February 21, 2012, 14:15:02 pm
You can laugh as much as you wish,but the truth is the truth,people who just came back from 2 years inactive going in-game to provoke SWAT and post patrol report doesn't deserve place in SAPD.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 14:15:58 pm
You can laugh as much as you wish,but the truth is the truth,people who just came back from 2 years inactive going in-game to provoke SWAT and post patrol report doesn't deserve place in SAPD.

I need a 1:0 kill death radio to deserve a place right? :>>>>>> :))) :OOO :)))
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Cyril on February 21, 2012, 14:16:35 pm
"P.S ~ note the replies of frustration are from SWAT and their close friends. SHOCK HORROR!!!111!11"

Close friends ? We are SAPD. We all work together each days..
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 14:17:47 pm
Close friends ? We are SAPD. We all work together each days..

OK pal. gd teemwork o/\o
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Orel on February 21, 2012, 14:19:03 pm
No, you need to make up your mind and not start to shit on SAPD beacuse you didn't get accepted yet.
Really would like to see you chasing 10 heavy armed criminals on NRG with your RP without dieing 10 times.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 14:21:18 pm
No, you need to make up your mind and not start to shit on SAPD beacuse you didn't get accepted yet.
Really would like to see you chasing 10 heavy armed criminals on NRG with your RP without dieing 10 times.

ye i will chase them with my rp, that will make them fear me amirite? gd thinking mate i will aply cop powers in well now
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Steven J on February 21, 2012, 14:22:33 pm
You and your little friends need to stop shitting on SWAT. You and your friends attempt to provoke us everyday we are on combat patrol by hanging around our HQ, trying to gain access inside our HQ and for what? To which hunt obviously.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Cyril on February 21, 2012, 14:23:52 pm
You are pathetic, mister Hunter  :lol:
You shit on SAPD Cmd Staff, but they made an excellent job by not reinstating you, with such a digusting attitude  ;)
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 14:24:11 pm
You and your little friends need to stop shitting on SWAT. You and your friends attempt to provoke us everyday we are on combat patrol by hanging around our HQ, trying to gain access inside our HQ and for what? To which hunt obviously.

my little friend???// / ser i not poo on swat ... i use loo  :redface:


ye gd @~ cyril - you sure know how 2 say it
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jay_Adams on February 21, 2012, 14:25:21 pm
You can laugh as much as you wish,but the truth is the truth,people who just came back from 2 years inactive going in-game to provoke SWAT and post patrol report doesn't deserve place in SAPD.

I am just saying, but such a sentence makes little to no sense. Surely by the fact that an applicant is required to post 'patrol reports' it must be a requirement in order to merit a place within SAPD? Or is it but a formality? An attempt perhaps to appear immaculate and professional? Or if what you are seemingly implying or with any respect what I infer from your sentence: patrol reports are but bureaucratic irrelevancies?

Setting the bar high there Cyril, truly an example and inspiration to applicants.

One thing most of you seemingly fail to realise is that SA:MP is an online game. You are not paid for it, and you most certainly are not going to be able to use it on your curriculum vitae ergo it's but a fun-time-consumer; it is beyond absurd that you should attempt to insult someone merely due to the fact they do not wish to stare at their application for a month or so and ergo becoming ever so exasperated should it not yield fruit.

Prima facie I find the last few counter-arguments that attempt to irrefutable James (if you can call them that) to be nothing more than a gargantuan farce and therefore: irrelevant to their purpose of attempting to defeat an argument of which is correct and true to its very ethos.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 14:26:32 pm
DO NOT REMOVE WARNINGS - CAPTAIN PLAM KNIGHT
BIG ANGRY RED LETTERS THAT MODERATE SELECTIVELY CAN GO TO HELL. OTHER PEOPLE SWORE IN THESE POSTS TOO. - CITIZEN JAMES HUNTER

This is the second time I've had to edit this to display "selective" moderating in its finest.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Steven J on February 21, 2012, 14:32:15 pm
In other words, for you illiterates - you're full of shit.

I think you are full of shit.

We have proof to backup our accusation (:

http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-141-2.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-141-2.png)
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-143-2.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-143-2.png)
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-144-2.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-144-2.png)
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-145-2.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-145-2.png)
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-147-1.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-147-1.png)

The funniest thing is that you were being spectated the entire time:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2cnvxiv.png]http://i40.tinypic.com/2cnvxiv.png)
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Orel on February 21, 2012, 14:33:04 pm
In other words, for you illiterates - you're full of shit.

I think you are full of shit.

We have proof to backup our accusation (:

http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-141-2.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-141-2.png)
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-143-2.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-143-2.png)
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-144-2.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-144-2.png)
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-145-2.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-145-2.png)
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-147-1.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-147-1.png)

The funniest thing is that you were being spectated the entire time:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2cnvxiv.png (http://i40.tinypic.com/2cnvxiv.png)
Nothing more to say, 1 picture is like 1,000 words.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Cyril on February 21, 2012, 14:35:05 pm
In other words, for you illiterates - you're full of shit.

I think you are full of shit.

We have proof to backup our accusation (:

http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-141-2.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-141-2.png)
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-143-2.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-143-2.png)
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-144-2.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-144-2.png)
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-145-2.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-145-2.png)
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-147-1.png (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/Talalz0r/George%20Jetson/sa-mp-147-1.png)

The funniest thing is that you were being spectated the entire time:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2cnvxiv.png (http://i40.tinypic.com/2cnvxiv.png)

Ahah, awesome. No more comments need to be added.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jay_Adams on February 21, 2012, 14:40:55 pm
Once again you both are making perfect sense... If anything the pictures you have posted only implicate your incompetence. If you're truly dependent on such screen-shots to argue against that of which has been said, you must be pretty desperate to say the least.

'Your accusation?' Okay... good evidence, totally permissible...

You're suggesting that you were 'hanging' around, like what a bunch of street thugs? Clearly a worthy and beneficial 'combat patrol' one of which is obviously required.

You and your little friends need to stop shitting on SWAT. You and your friends attempt to provoke us everyday we are on combat patrol by hanging around our HQ, trying to gain access inside our HQ and for what? To which hunt obviously.
   

I think I can safely recline in my chair and read your posts until I end up dying of the pure hysteria of which is induced by such trivial attempts to produce coherent and cohesive arguments.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 14:42:01 pm
In reality, not a thing has changed at all, no points have altered, no facts modified - I've never denied that I've not recorded footage or taken evidence of how pathetic your team is, one moment you say "spend a day with SWAT" the next you claim I provoke you in-game and wait outside your base every day. So now gang can take pause in your celibration with what they think are snappy one-liners, I can hear your clique's celebrations on Teamspeak being cut short from here! But don't be disheartened, i'm sure if you all work really, really hard you might be able to find another picture where i'm glaring at you too aggressively.

P.S ~ Provoke you every day? LMAO - I have better things to do, that's hilariously desperate, oh god that was so funny, thanks for brightening the day.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Orel on February 21, 2012, 14:43:05 pm
Why dont you make a RP team James and chase suspects with RP if thats what you like to do?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 14:43:44 pm
Why dont you make a RP team James and chase suspects with RP if thats what you like to do?

yes gd officer ser i have alredy said i will chase them with my rp u r so wise and all good knowing in police :>>>
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Steven J on February 21, 2012, 14:44:10 pm
Triamph to what? Being thugs more? Oh please :)
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jay_Adams on February 21, 2012, 14:44:35 pm
Why dont you make a RP team James and chase suspects with RP if thats what you like to do?

Surely we could just theoretically join 'Argonath Roleplay Police Department' and therefore San Andreas Police Department? No? Am I in the wrong place?

Good argument AirOrel, once again my need for humour has been quenched.  *slow clap*
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Orel on February 21, 2012, 14:45:37 pm
Why dont you make a RP team James and chase suspects with RP if thats what you like to do?

yes gd officer ser i have alredy said i will chase them with my rp u r so wise and all good knowing in police :>>>
I am happy to see you laughing,really I do.
If Gandalf stated that we're not forced to RP there's a reason.
Just take for example your attitue now James after being rejected.
I would like to know from both of you what is the reason of blocking our garage and exploding cars on us?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Cyril on February 21, 2012, 14:46:13 pm
Call me when you'll handle 4 heavy armed cop-killers with your RP-thingy.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jay_Adams on February 21, 2012, 14:47:46 pm
Call me when you'll handle 4 heavy armed cop-killers  with your RP-thingy.

Or you could actually do some reading and see the many times we have done so in the past. Or did they delete all records of an intellectual nature from the SWAT boards?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 14:48:05 pm
Triamph to what? Being thugs more? Oh please :)

If you want to celebrate that be my guest, at least you're being honest now.

P.S ~ AirOrel, I withdrew my application, sorry to piss on your head. Er, I mean rain on your parade.

P.P.S ~ Cyril, my team can do it against twenty swarming a block in a code purple, a riot, a 207 hostage situation - you name it and we'll control it, there's even videos on youtube, i'll see if I can get an old SWAT member to give me the links, then you'll be what's described as "EATING YOUR OWN WORDS."
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Cyril on February 21, 2012, 14:49:21 pm
"In the past". Yeah, it probably worked in 2008. What about you do the same today and tell us the result ? Easy to refer to the past, when the community has changed.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Orel on February 21, 2012, 14:50:28 pm
Triamph to what? Being thugs more? Oh please :)

If you want to celebrate that be my guest, at least you're being honest now.

P.S ~ AirOrel, I withdrew my application, sorry to piss on your head. Er, I mean rain on your parade.

P.P.S ~ Cyril, my team can do it against twenty swarming a block in a code purple, a riot, a 207 hostage situation - you name it and we'll control it, there's even videos on youtube, i'll see if I can get an old SWAT member to give me the links, then you'll be what's described as "EATING YOUR OWN WORDS."
"Sorry to piss on your head","I withdrew my application", nothing from those answer to our replies.
As I said the criminals in the past are not like the criminals today,so of course the cops in the past are not like the cops now.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jay_Adams on February 21, 2012, 14:51:00 pm
Just take for example your attitue now James after being rejected.

Apparently withdrawing an application is the same as it being 'rejected' by definition now-a days.   Once again your proficiency to produce altercation is found wanting.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 14:52:15 pm
"In the past". Yeah, it probably worked in 2008. What about you do the same today and tell us the result ? Easy to refer to the past, when the community has changed.

The point was to prove that, and we would've done if not for the apparent fear of becoming unpopular that commanding elements had to give it a try, thus the application sat stagnant for over a month whilst nothing happened, and I was not returning to sit around and be permitted to do -nothing-.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jay_Adams on February 21, 2012, 14:52:38 pm
As I said the criminals in the past are not like the criminals today,so of course the cops in the past are not like the cops now.

Yes, the criminals of today clearly have changed, though I'd like to see you explain as to why they've changed, and into what.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Cyril on February 21, 2012, 14:53:18 pm
"In the past". Yeah, it probably worked in 2008. What about you do the same today and tell us the result ? Easy to refer to the past, when the community has changed.

The point was to prove that, and we would've done if not for the apparent fear of becoming unpopular that commanding elements had to give it a try.

You can still do it. Join the server, team up with who ever you want, and show us a video.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Marco Cipone on February 21, 2012, 14:54:01 pm
Well everything I see lately is only complaining again and again about SAPD/SWAT.Do you at least have good reasons?If you do,go REPORT this and not post in 10000 places how much you dislike us.

Also I must admit,it doesn't seem you were provoking us in that picture...and when an admin came there he just abused you,right?We know how it is..
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 14:58:40 pm
"In the past". Yeah, it probably worked in 2008. What about you do the same today and tell us the result ? Easy to refer to the past, when the community has changed.

The point was to prove that, and we would've done if not for the apparent fear of becoming unpopular that commanding elements had to give it a try.

You can still do it. Join the server, team up with who ever you want, and show us a video.

Alright! Through all of that, the first legitimate challenge and reasoning against what I've been talking about. It might take a couple of weeks but i'll humor this request.

Provoking won't assist you on making your point anyhow - Captain Plam Knight

What I can't edit my own post now without you deleting that as well? It's like the government media, say only what they want you to say. - Citizen James Hunter
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Marco Cipone on February 21, 2012, 15:06:09 pm
Nice provocation,what can I say..but I advise you to stop.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ronnel on February 21, 2012, 15:12:58 pm
"In the past". Yeah, it probably worked in 2008. What about you do the same today and tell us the result ? Easy to refer to the past, when the community has changed.

The point was to prove that, and we would've done if not for the apparent fear of becoming unpopular that commanding elements had to give it a try, thus the application sat stagnant for over a month whilst nothing happened, and I was not returning to sit around and be permitted to do -nothing-.
On the contrary. It was decided that firing all leaders based on your view that you want your own friends in command positions was not how we work.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 15:16:49 pm
That's completely a presumption, at no given point have I stressed that replacements should be friends of mine; they should have the guts about them and the energy about them to actually do some work and try to make things better than what they are how-ever, nothing's been done! Even if behind closed doors? It's still paper format, we have leaders such as Sushi that I really respect, I don't know the man beyond occasional meetings on the field. So that kind of proves your ... accusation I suppose ... incorrect.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: AirOne on February 21, 2012, 15:44:12 pm
"In the past". Yeah, it probably worked in 2008. What about you do the same today and tell us the result ? Easy to refer to the past, when the community has changed.

The point was to prove that, and we would've done if not for the apparent fear of becoming unpopular that commanding elements had to give it a try, thus the application sat stagnant for over a month whilst nothing happened, and I was not returning to sit around and be permitted to do -nothing-.
On the contrary. It was decided that firing all leaders based on your view that you want your own friends in command positions was not how we work.
Nothing much to say ,Except agreed
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 15:57:42 pm
Nothing much to say

You got that right.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Renz0 on February 21, 2012, 16:07:21 pm
Okay so.

Current SWAT guys = perfect SRU.

- Reworking SWAT with tactical response.


@Don - Not provokation, this is serious matter which needs to be solved asap. Hiding from it, that will not solve anything. Only thing how we can solve it to STAND infront it, dealing with it with any hurts. If i post some idea, it's only provokoation and also " You are not in SAPD you cant do shit, you should think it while you were SAPD" and that bullshit.

People willing to help SAPD if they are NOT part of it is just exclusive.


As i said, SAPD and SWAT needs to be restructured, i got few ideas. If you want, i can give you my MSN and we can discuss. Always willing to help, even If I'm oout of SAPD for second time. Trust me, i really want to help, but someone needs to give me a try?
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Renz0 on February 21, 2012, 16:09:55 pm
"In the past". Yeah, it probably worked in 2008. What about you do the same today and tell us the result ? Easy to refer to the past, when the community has changed.

The point was to prove that, and we would've done if not for the apparent fear of becoming unpopular that commanding elements had to give it a try, thus the application sat stagnant for over a month whilst nothing happened, and I was not returning to sit around and be permitted to do -nothing-.
On the contrary. It was decided that firing all leaders based on your view that you want your own friends in command positions was not how we work.


It can be also friends, but the problem is, they are WILLING to improve things.. It can be also enemies or some other people, but if they are working hard and WILLING to help whole system, this is awesome.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Cyril on February 21, 2012, 16:13:49 pm
Why people keep talking about SWAT when they don't know how it works ? SWAT is already doing tactical part : cf SAPD 207 cases
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jcstodds on February 21, 2012, 16:16:16 pm
Probably best in your case James to make your own Group outside of SAPD. Then you have all the opportunity you need.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: James_Hunter on February 21, 2012, 16:18:12 pm
Absaloutely JC, it's just saying what needs to be said is all ~ someone had to take a sledgehammer to the wall of slime. ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ronnel on February 21, 2012, 16:19:53 pm

It can be also friends, but the problem is, they are WILLING to improve things.. It can be also enemies or some other people, but if they are working hard and WILLING to help whole system, this is awesome.
If James_Hunter would have been willing to work with the system as provided and decided by the Government, he would have been welcome. The system he was leading in the past was working while there were active leaders (mostly himself) and failed due to being too restrictive as soon as he left.
This led to new groups emerging that had SWAT staff working outside their own regulations.
To go back to a system that already failed was not correct, and also allowing rogue groups seems to attract trouble more than help.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Renz0 on February 21, 2012, 16:21:05 pm
Okay.

SWAT work is based on:

Responding to kidnap situation.
Responding to heavy C30
Responding to situations when SAPD can't handle it on their own.
Responding to high protection of president, and all high diplomacy.
Responding to barricated situation when civilian is in danger by guns or any other threats, bombs etc.


I never SWAT in high speed vehicles chasing anyone, correct me if I'm wrong. SWAT can respond also in SWAT ranchers, which you are able to /weabonabuse.


If SAPD was working as team, they don't need SWAT for four suspects in a CAR Drivebying. Just get some units, block some area, just as bridges, make their car go boom, take cover, try to survive and work as team.

I saw many of "Y U NO RESPOND TO C30". Basically, the officers might be in different location than you and responding takes some time.

Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Jonny O'Sullivan on February 21, 2012, 16:37:39 pm
SWAT work is based on:

Responding to kidnap situation.
Responding to heavy C30
Responding to situations when SAPD can't handle it on their own.
Responding to high protection of president, and all high diplomacy.
Responding to barricated situation when civilian is in danger by guns or any other threats, bombs etc.


I never SWAT in high speed vehicles chasing anyone, correct me if I'm wrong. SWAT can respond also in SWAT ranchers, which you are able to /weaponequip.

This is exactly how it should be... SWAT is there for these types situations only. Their job is NOT to drive around perusing suspects in fast cars.

To go back to a system that already failed was not correct, and also allowing rogue groups seems to attract trouble more than help.

Fair point, like you said it would be a waste of time to go back to a system that already failed. It did fail because the leaders went inactive. But you have to realise one thing, there are still people here that WANT it to go back to the old system. People who prefer it to be that way, the way SWAT is meant to be. Those people are willing to help SWAT revert back to the old system and make it stay like that.

I have no problem if the group of cops stay and drive around in their fast cars killing suspects with nice pretty weapons... But what I do have a problem with is that they are using the name of SWAT as a cover up to be able to do that.

This is a plead to you now as many other would like to say the same thing aswell. Please can you just reconsider the whole SWAT situation, even if it means making SRU or whatever they want to be called an Official subgroup. Let SWAT return to the highly trained and skilled tactical group that it use to be.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Renz0 on February 21, 2012, 16:44:03 pm
Fully agreeing with Jonny.
Title: Re: SAPD today - a rant
Post by: Ronnel on February 21, 2012, 16:44:27 pm
It is the leaders who went inactive and showed disloyalty that are now begging to be reinstated with their old system.
When I see who are most vocal in the topic it are people who seem to regret having thrown away what they had in Argonath and are now trying to get it back by backstabbing and trying to prove they were so much better in the past.

Sorry guys, you threw it away. Any further bad girling can result in us inviting you to bad girl elsewhere.
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