Respect between ARFD and ARPD

[Chief J. Schappell]

I honestly don't see what's the damn issue.. you don't need scripts to be respected.

Look at the Montgomery Incident with Ravenwood and SAPD 2 years ago, everybody had fun and respected each other regardless. What happened to that nowadays? It seems people don't care about respect anymore.

Exactly our point. Thank you Elite.

@Boozman: On a personal level that may be true, but as a human being the server rules demand that respect be given regardless of who it is.

[Boozman]

@Boozman: On a personal level that may be true, but as a human being the server rules demand that respect be given regardless of who it is.

Respect cannot be demanded by anyone. The server rules ask to respect everyone, however it's mighty hard to respect someone who hasn't done shit to earn it.
I believe tolerance is the word that should be used in this situation, not respect. You can't force someone to respect another person, just toleration.

[Chief J. Schappell]

@Boozman: On a personal level that may be true, but as a human being the server rules demand that respect be given regardless of who it is.

Respect cannot be demanded by anyone. The server rules ask to respect everyone, however it's mighty hard to respect someone who hasn't done shit to earn it.
I believe tolerance is the word that should be used in this situation, not respect. You can't force someone to respect another person, just toleration.

Wrong. The server rules DO demand it. If you cannot follow the rules, you are punished. If you continue to break rules, you get removed from the server. By that standard, that means if you cannot respect other players, you are removed from the server, or even the community. As for tolerance, yes, that should happen regardless of who you are, where you are, and what you believe, even outside of this community. Not everyone thinks alike, and you don't have to agree with them, but you do have to tolerate them, and as a human being, show them the deceny of respect if you wish to have any yourself.

[Allison]

I honestly don't see what's the damn issue.. you don't need scripts to be respected.

Look at the Montgomery Incident with Ravenwood and SAPD 2 years ago, everybody had fun and respected each other regardless. What happened to that nowadays? It seems people don't care about respect anymore.

Sure was fun, me magically calling SAPD in. 
Wish it could be the same again.

[Chief Alex_Zissou]

I honestly don't see what's the damn issue.. you don't need scripts to be respected.

Look at the Montgomery Incident with Ravenwood and SAPD 2 years ago, everybody had fun and respected each other regardless. What happened to that nowadays? It seems people don't care about respect anymore.

I don't remember mentioning scripts to be respected. I sadly was not a part of the Montgomery Incident. I like that that quote "It seems people don't care about respect anymore," I agree. Sadly.

[Ben]

Well you know what they say; Respect is earned, not given.

Well...

If "respect is earned", then people would not respect each other because no-one shows respect to them, Lets face it, the quote is actually epic bullshit.

The rank shows they have earned respect. They have worked through the ranks, so they have earned the respect?

[Boozman]

The rank shows they have earned respect. They have worked through the ranks, so they have earned the respect?

That's not how ranks are earned, and you know that.

The majority of promotions in groups are done through favoritism, and anyone can see that. You can't deny it, some people get "noticed" more then others and received promotions faster then those who don't get "noticed". Some may not even realize that's what their doing, but it's the truth. If you can't see that nor admit it, then you are very naive and need to open up your eyes more.

[Chief J. Schappell]

The rank shows they have earned respect. They have worked through the ranks, so they have earned the respect?

That's not how ranks are earned, and you know that.

The majority of promotions in groups are done through favoritism, and anyone can see that. You can't deny it, some people get "noticed" more then others and received promotions faster then those who don't get "noticed". Some may not even realize that's what their doing, but it's the truth. If you can't see that nor admit it, then you are very naive and need to open up your eyes more.

In the case of SAPD, I will strongly agree with you there. I'm not pointing fingers, but it's been a long time issue...probably almost as long as SAPD has existed. There's too many friend-based decisions happening.

[Ben]

The rank shows they have earned respect. They have worked through the ranks, so they have earned the respect?

That's not how ranks are earned, and you know that.

The majority of promotions in groups are done through favoritism, and anyone can see that. You can't deny it, some people get "noticed" more then others and received promotions faster then those who don't get "noticed". Some may not even realize that's what their doing, but it's the truth. If you can't see that nor admit it, then you are very naive and need to open up your eyes more.

You just popped my little bubble of perfection... 
I know you are right, as I have thought that myself in certain parts of the SAPD, where people's qualifications and activeness are ignored to put less suited people in positions...but I was trying to convince myself otherwise, as arguing with the leadership doesn't help chances of promotion either 

[Boozman]

I'm glad I'm not the only one realizing that. And it's not a recent thing, it's always been that way... at least from where I stand.

[Chief J. Schappell]

I'm glad I'm not the only one realizing that. And it's not a recent thing, it's always been that way... at least from where I stand.

It's been an issue longer than you've been in the community. Hell, it's been an issue ever since the first time I stepped foot in SA:MP and put on a police uniform. It's probably always been that way for SA:MP. I can't speak for the other servers, but I know MTA:VC was never this way, and I don't see why SA:MP is following such a horrible path. I hope no one else is following it either...

[Boozman]

It's been an issue longer than you've been in the community. Hell, it's been an issue ever since the first time I stepped foot in SA:MP and put on a police uniform. It's probably always been that way for SA:MP. I can't speak for the other servers, but I know MTA:VC was never this way, and I don't see why SA:MP is following such a horrible path. I hope no one else is following it either...

>server that has 100 on a daily basis
>server that has 5 on a daily basis

That's why.

[Chief J. Schappell]

It's been an issue longer than you've been in the community. Hell, it's been an issue ever since the first time I stepped foot in SA:MP and put on a police uniform. It's probably always been that way for SA:MP. I can't speak for the other servers, but I know MTA:VC was never this way, and I don't see why SA:MP is following such a horrible path. I hope no one else is following it either...

>server that has 100 on a daily basis
>server that has 5 on a daily basis

That's why.

Not really, and you are very wrong on that. MTA:VC, back when it was popular, would have the server constantly maxed out with users fighting to get in when someone else's connection would time out or they'd leave. 26 plus a constant wave of fighting users brought a lot of it's own issues to the server, but playing the buddy system was never one of them. SA:MP could have easily stayed clean, but it didn't.

[Oliver Daniels]

thread officially derailed

Favoritism in this server exists because most of the players here are in their teens. Instead of paying attention to everyone equally, they concentrate on their friends and in most cases, completely ignore anyone they don't know or who has made a bad first impression on them. Only a minor fraction of the server's user base is able to make good decisions regarding handing out positions et cetera, most of them in turn being young adults - people who have experience in seeing how the world operates and realise that even if you don't like someone, they can still do a good job.
 
Another problem is the fact that people tend to close their eyes and look away when one of their buddies breaks the rules/regulations and the like. I've experienced it firsthand - I went around acting like a complete prat and an admin kicked a player that retaliated when I insulted him. I wasn't a friend with the admin but I was his superior in SWAT and he immediately assumed that I was in the right - even though I should've been punished instead. I can name at least five similar incidences from the top of my head where an admin/SAPD high-up has chosen to back his friend even though he's clearly in the wrong.

And, of course, friends promoting friends. It's been going on since the beginning of the server and it'll continue to go on until Argonath becomes obsolete. Bringing examples of it, however, tends to get people either suspended from SAPD or removed from it altogether.
I tend to talk about it a lot, but I still think that James was (and still is) one of the very few people in his age range able to make good decisions regarding leadership matters.

[Chief J. Schappell]

thread officially derailed

Favoritism in this server exists because most of the players here are in their teens. Instead of paying attention to everyone equally, they concentrate on their friends and in most cases, completely ignore anyone they don't know or who has made a bad first impression on them. Only a minor fraction of the server's user base is able to make good decisions regarding handing out positions et cetera, most of them in turn being young adults - people who have experience in seeing how the world operates and realise that even if you don't like someone, they can still do a good job.
 
Another problem is the fact that people tend to close their eyes and look away when one of their buddies breaks the rules/regulations and the like. I've experienced it firsthand - I went around acting like a complete prat and an admin kicked a player that retaliated when I insulted him. I wasn't a friend with the admin but I was his superior in SWAT and he immediately assumed that I was in the right - even though I should've been punished instead. I can name at least five similar incidences from the top of my head where an admin/SAPD high-up has chosen to back his friend even though he's clearly in the wrong.

And, of course, friends promoting friends. It's been going on since the beginning of the server and it'll continue to go on until Argonath becomes obsolete. Bringing examples of it, however, tends to get people either suspended from SAPD or removed from it altogether.
I tend to talk about it a lot, but I still think that James was (and still is) one of the very few people in his age range able to make good decisions regarding leadership matters.

VERY WELL SAID!

Holy shit Oliver, that post amazed the hell out of me...great work man, that was inspiring to read! You pretty much nailed it right there!

As for the topic being derailed, it is going off-topic, but overall it does have some relation to the original subject because it is one of the main causes, so I'll refrain some splitting it since it has relevancy.

[Kenny]

More post deralining..

In the case of SAPD, I will strongly agree with you there. I'm not pointing fingers, but it's been a long time issue...probably almost as long as SAPD has existed. There's too many friend-based decisions happening.

Its a shame you still want vengeance SugarD you blame SAPD for favouritism when in reality its bigger than one single department. You and I both know (unless your unwilling to look reality in the eye and deal with it) that procedures and rules set forth can be completely skipped or accelerated for the right people. This is how things work in any organisation wether it be police departments, fbi, a clan, group or even the admin team.
If you have the right amount of connection and friendship with the right personel you can and will most certainly be someone before the average person.

Wrong. The server rules DO demand it. If you cannot follow the rules, you are punished. If you continue to break rules, you get removed from the server. By that standard, that means if you cannot respect other players, you are removed from the server, or even the community.

The server rules demands the players to be respected, however in roleplay you DO NOT have to respect a player. Anyone can call you Mr fireman regadless of your rank and position. In this case the original poster was called @Mr Fireman@ and he is making a big fuss about it, it was done in terms of roleplay and NO ONE can be punished according to server rules. Its best to know the situations before applying server rules to every incident.

[Chief J. Schappell]

More post deralining..

In the case of SAPD, I will strongly agree with you there. I'm not pointing fingers, but it's been a long time issue...probably almost as long as SAPD has existed. There's too many friend-based decisions happening.

Its a shame you still want vengeance SugarD you blame SAPD for favouritism when in reality its bigger than one single department. You and I both know (unless your unwilling to look reality in the eye and deal with it) that procedures and rules set forth can be completely skipped or accelerated for the right people. This is how things work in any organisation wether it be police departments, fbi, a clan, group or even the admin team.
If you have the right amount of connection and friendship with the right personel you can and will most certainly be someone before the average person.

Wrong. The server rules DO demand it. If you cannot follow the rules, you are punished. If you continue to break rules, you get removed from the server. By that standard, that means if you cannot respect other players, you are removed from the server, or even the community.

The server rules demands the players to be respected, however in roleplay you DO NOT have to respect a player. Anyone can call you Mr fireman regadless of your rank and position. In this case the original poster was called @Mr Fireman@ and he is making a big fuss about it, it was done in terms of roleplay and NO ONE can be punished according to server rules. Its best to know the situations before applying server rules to every incident.

1. Wrong.
2. Wrong.
3. Still wrong.

I don't want vengeance. I QUIT SAPD ON MY OWN. Don't you dare even deny that SAPD has this issue because users openly have admitted it for years. Secondly, how dare you make personal attacks on me when you are discussing "respect". Lastly, I'm not going to even bother replying to every point in your post, that's how badly you tried to attacked me, and I honestly couldn't care less. For the record, you're also wrong about the "Mr. Fireman" thing, in this case. It's not the fact that he called him "Mr. Fireman" that was disrespectful. It was the fact that he purposely continued to say it only to taunt the user in hopes of angering and provoking him, purely because he had no respect for the fact that he was in ARFD.

Edit:

You and I both know (unless your unwilling to look reality in the eye and deal with it) that procedures and rules set forth can be completely skipped or accelerated for the right people.

Bullshit. Regardless of training, everyone should be treated equally and fairly, and should be forced to earn anything they have. They shouldn't be given a rank sooner because of their qualifications. Now if they prove themselves worthy by earning it fairly, that is one thing, but what you are talking about is just making them a higher rank because of their past experience.

If you have the right amount of connection and friendship with the right personel you can and will most certainly be someone before the average person.

Thank you for just openly admitting to one of the issues being discussed. Don't attack me when you agree with me.

[Oliver Daniels]

You and I both know (unless your unwilling to look reality in the eye and deal with it) that procedures and rules set forth can be completely skipped or accelerated for the right people.

Bullshit. Regardless of training, everyone should be treated equally and fairly, and should be forced to earn anything they have. They shouldn't be given a rank sooner because of their qualifications. Now if they prove themselves worthy by earning it fairly, that is one thing, but what you are talking about is just making them a higher rank because of their past experience.

Everyone -should- be treated fairly, yes. You seemed to misunderstand Kenny's point - he said that despite the general idea of fairness, some people are still treated more 'fairly' than others. I will bring myself as an example - When I briefly left around last summer, I realised that being a criminal in Argonath is way too big a burden on my funds and returned to the police force - to my old rank. Since I had friends high up, I didn't have to go through all the paperwork that usually comes with re-instatement.

However, I disagree with your point that people shouldn't be given a rank if they qualify for it. Take real life for example - you don't get ex-captains who resigned and returned to the force running around catching your everyday dope dealers. You shouldn't simply throw all that training and experience away.

You should cut down on the aggression, man.

[Bianconeri]

@Oliver

You are partly right, but there at least should be a limit in that!
Else i just could jump up again and become Sergeant as i used to be, but that isnt fair!

Everyone has to prove himself, no matter what rank he/she had! Although someone with experience probably rises up through the ranks faster